Not By Works

[BillG]

It talks about false prophets and how to tell them from the true prophets.

By their fruits you shall know them!! Does it come from a thorn bush or a good tree.

A good tree produces good fruit and a bad tree produces bad fruit.

I can't disagree with that.

What I disagree with is that it's the fruit/works or obedience that saves us.
To me if that is the case then Jesus would not have needed to die.

He would have said

"Ok people I've shown you how its to be done, now go do it"

That being the case then he had no need to hang on that cross.

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus said the following about the fruits. Refute this. This is where James get it from!!
ALL SCRSCRIPTUON A TOPIC REMEMBER!!!

Matthew 7


True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Context has already been explained to you....the verses you cite have nothing to do with salvation, but rather TRUE and FALSE prophets....geesh man........get with the picture before your dogma takes you some place you do not wish to go....and JAMES has nothing to do with the procurement of SALVATION, but rather how a MAN can SEE the faith that SAVES a man.....wake UP

 

[Endoscopy]

Are the wolves in sheep's clothing saved? Obviously not. You recognize them by their fruits. Today there are many secular preachers in pulpits. They bring no one to Jesus. That is their fruit or lack thereof. Jesus is correct!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Are the wolves in sheep's clothing saved? Obviously not. You recognize them by their fruits. Today there are many secular preachers in pulpits. They bring no one to Jesus. That is their fruit or lack thereof.

So what....that has nothing to do with what brings biblical salvation to a man and what does not......and CONTEXT alleviates JAMES being used to prove how ONE IS BORN AGAIN, but rather it SPEAKS TO HOW A MAN CAN SEE THE FAITH THAT SAVES.......

SHOW ME YOUR FAITH..........

 

[Endoscopy]

I can't disagree with that.

What I disagree with is that it's the fruit/works or obedience that saves us.
To me if that is the case then Jesus would not have needed to die.

He would have said

"Ok people I've shown you how its to be done, now go do it"

That being the case then he had no need to hang on that cross.

Then explain what jesus said on the topic.

Matthew 7


True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.


​Which are you? What fruit do you provide on this board for example. What fruit do you see in people around you?

 

[star]

In that case, take the onion out of the wallet.
It will stop you crying, and make you smell less.

lolol. Actually feebly I was trying to compare my wallet, which is usually empty, to making me cry like an onion does. So are my "accounts" if I tried to please God with filling them up with "works."

You do have a point though and I will take that "no onion" in my wallet to heart.

 

[BillG]

Are the wolves in sheep's clothing saved? Obviously not. You recognize them by their fruits. Today there are many secular preachers in pulpits. They bring no one to Jesus. That is their fruit or lack thereof. Jesus is correct!!!

You are talking about secular preachers here.
What is a secular preacher?
And what do they preach?

What is a genuine faith filled preacher?
And what do they preach?

 

[LightLoveHope]

The state of the heart is everything when sharing.

The heart is the key to the Kingdom. If the heart has darkness in it, great will be that
darkness and the sharing that comes out of it.

If good deeds are evil, and evil deeds are good, then the heart is false.
If peoples intention is merely to destroy and not build up and shine like a light, then
God has done nothing in them.

So the kind of sharing we see here every day testifies to what is in peoples hearts.
And to share against Christs words of command to love, to walk, to obey is simply
not of God. It is the words of false teachers who live hypocritical lives.

A man or believer who walks in the light as He is in the light speaks from God.

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin
1 John 1:5-7

Some try and share against walking righteously, doing the right thing, yet this is
precisely what John is talking about. So those who share like this walk in darkness
and do not have the light, and do not know God and His will.

This is all linked to desire, fear and the will of man. Why do people or anyone want
to walk in darkness or sin, and oppose the word of God? I do not know, but they
do.

 

[BillG]

lolol. Actually feebly I was trying to compare my wallet, which is usually empty, to making me cry like an onion does. So are my "accounts" if I tried to please God with filling them up with "works."

You do have a point though and I will take that "no onion" in my wallet to heart.

What makes me cry when I look at my wallet?

The last time I looked at it, there was money in it. The next time I look at it there is no money in it.

The wife and kids have nicked it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then explain what jesus said on the topic.

Matthew 7


True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.


​Which are you? What fruit do you provide on this board for example. What fruit do you see in people around you?

n

you cant tell us what fruit you have? And how that will pay for your sin?

 

[star]

What makes me cry when I look at my wallet?

The last time I looked at it, there was money in it. The next time I look at it there is no money in it.

The wife and kids have nicked it.

Awesome wife and kids.

 

[ElAmor]

Is there someone here who is denying that Jesus has come in the flesh?

Titus 1:13-16 This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

 

[Endoscopy]

I can't disagree with that.

What I disagree with is that it's the fruit/works or obedience that saves us.
To me if that is the case then Jesus would not have needed to die.

He would have said

"Ok people I've shown you how its to be done, now go do it"

That being the case then he had no need to hang on that cross.

If a person has no good fruits that implies they have no real faith. Remember Jesus said at judgment time many claiming that they worked for him will be rejected. That means they had no real faith in Him. Their fruits will bear that out. James thus states faith without works is dead because it is not real faith and not producing the fruits of true faith.

What is so hard to understand about this. Always the convoluted reading of James when he was saying what Jesus said!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

If a person has no good fruits that implies they have no real faith. Remember Jesus said at judgment time many claiming that they worked for him will be rejected. That means they had no real faith in Him. Their fruits will bear that out. James thus states faith without works is dead because it is not real faith and not producing the fruits of true faith.

They were never saved to begin with...your stretch is not passing the smell test......their problem was they trusted into their works....just like most who take James out of context....

 

[BillG]

Awesome wife and kids.

That's not I say when I look at it.
I have had to learn to check the wallet before I pay for something.
When paying for petrol a garage and I opened my wallet to set no money, trust me awesome wife and kids did not come to mind.

I did apologise to the teller and those around me for my meltdown.

 

[BillG]

If a person has no good fruits that implies they have no real faith. Remember Jesus said at judgment time many claiming that they worked for him will be rejected. That means they had no real faith in Him. Their fruits will bear that out. James thus states faith without works is dead because it is not real faith and not producing the fruits of true faith.

What is so hard to understand about this. Always the convoluted reading of James when he was saying what Jesus said!!!

OK what is it that you see what I have said that disagrees with you.
I have said true faith will produce works will bear fruit.
If not then it's not genuine faith.

What is it that you fighting against what I'm saying?

 

[Endoscopy]

n

you cant tell us what fruit you have? And how that will pay for your sin?

Deliberately misunderstanding what I said about the Bible. This on a Christian site. Are you one of the wolves?

We are saved by grace through the sacifice of Jesus. If we accept His sacrifice we are saved. Rejecting Him is the only unforgivable sin!!!

Thus we have faith and should bear the fruit thereof!! As James stated faith without works is dead. Basically saying no works means no real faith.

A doctor when he got mad would say "You arguefy and sputify and know not wherein!" You remind me of that quote.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Titus 1:13-16 This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

And who are THEY whom you are accusing?

 

[valleyofdecision]

Deliberately misunderstanding what I said about the Bible. This on a Christian site. Are you one of the wolves?

We are saved by grace through the sacifice of Jesus. If we accept His sacrifice we are saved. Rejecting Him is the only unforgivable sin!!!

Thus we have faith and should bear the fruit thereof!! As James stated faith without works is dead. Basically saying no works means no real faith.

If you apply this interpretation to James it makes Jesus and Paul a liar. James is not saying we are justified by works. We are justified by faith. James is saying that if we have been justified by faith, then we will be zealous for Good works and do them, as a changed person, and if we do not do them as a changed person, our faith is dead.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

the point of this thread

is once you are born again

you are His child and saved

all glory to salvation goes to Jesus..... NOT by your works

but His

_______

the walk AS a new creature who cannot lose his/her salvation is a completely different topic

pray constantly
examine yourself to see if you are the spirit

deny the flesh

encourage to DO good works (not to save yourself but out of love for Him who loved you first)

and to build our brothers and sisters up

help them if they stumble

and the fruits of walking in the spirit

im sure we all know

love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
meekness, temperance

we should also say charity

but none of these things save us
or keep us saved

this is God providing the transformation


no one should look at Gods grace or the GIFT of salvation to those who believe on the name of Jesus as a "now i can do all these sins i love" card

if you love these sins so much you dont even care what Jesus had to go through and it doesnt hurt your new heart that youre choosing flesh

id say examine yourself

because that sounds like the old heart to me

bump for those who cant seem to understand