Not By Works

[Ralph-]

I am not judging anything about you, I am baffled once again by your comfort level to make such a statement.

My comfort level is Christ.
I've been scared, real scared about falling into sin and being caught in it. Christ has come through for me each time when I called on him. I'm not my own comfort level. Christ is.

 

[UnderGrace]

ever increasing life of obedience

Unless you can give me an equation for an exponential growth curve we should all be on, you have nothing biblical to base this very subjective
unquantifiable experience on.

No.

Living in your old life and not having an ever increasing life of obedience means you are not saved.

Saved people should be keenly aware of the difference between living in sin as an unbeliever and the struggles of growing up into Christ as a believer.

 

[Ralph-]

J"a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time"-2 Peter 1:5.

Oops, my bad. 1 Peter 1:5.

"who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

 

[stonesoffire]

This argument, and the Nephilim used to be among the most talked about topics in forums.

The kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are exactly identical in scripture. Rightly divide. That means know the whole counsel of scripture and don't improperly lift a verse or passage out of context. Interpret the Bible using the Bible.


"23And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24“Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”-Matthew 19:23-24


One and the same thing.

Two different scriptures. A rich man, trusting in his works, believing that money makes him better than others, ( I, unfortunately know some) will not have God ruling within. Nor enter heaven above. Rightly divide.

 

[Ralph-]

Unless you can give me an equation for an exponential growth curve we should all be on, you have nothing biblical to base this very subjective
unquantifiable experience on.

What is it about the difference between having a growth curve and not having a growth curve that you do not understand?

Anything more than nothing is progress.

The problem is people thinking they can live in their old lives unchanged and thinking all is good because salvation is not by works, and once you are saved you are always saved no matter what. Your changed/changing life is the basis upon which you can know all is good with you and God and that you are ready to meet him. This is what 1 John is all about.

Comfort in salvation comes from the visible work of God in your life. Not from a once saved always saved argument.

 

[stonesoffire]

Oops, my bad. 1 Peter 1:5.

"who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus the Messiah! Because of his great mercy he has granted us a new birth, resulting in an immortal hope through the resurrection of Jesus, the Messiah, from the dead
1Pe 1:4 and to an inheritance kept in heaven for you that can't be destroyed, corrupted, or changed.

1Pe 1:5 Through faith you are being protected by God's power for a salvation that is ready to be revealed at the end of this era.


Ephesians 2:8 For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God

Ephesians 2:9 and not the result of actions, to put a stop to all boasting.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God's masterpiece, created in the Messiah Jesus to perform good actions that God prepared long ago to be our way of life.

Sunk in yet? Too good to be true? Isn't Gods love awesome!

Are you just debating for the sake of debate? Like picking a side just to keep the argument going?

If so, you are dividing the body of Christ.

Otherwise, you search scripture with an eye of must, rather than will. Then look at others with this log jam.

One is the law. The other is Spirit.

?

 

[stonesoffire]

What is it about the difference between having a growth curve and not having a growth curve that you do not understand?

Anything more than nothing is progress.

The problem is people thinking they can live in their old lives unchanged and thinking all is good because salvation is not by works, and once you are saved you are always saved no matter what. Your changed/changing life is the basis upon which you can know all is good with you and God and that you are ready to meet him. This is what 1 John is all about.

Comfort in salvation comes from the visible work of God in your life. Not from a once saved always saved argument.

Nobody believes or has said anything like this.

 

[Ralph-]

Nobody believes or has said anything like this.

Budman is hypergrace. He openly admits it. He plainly said the person living in his old life is still saved no matter what.

Most others don't openly admit that they believe grace makes it so they don't have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. They show by their lives that's what they believe.

 

[Ralph-]

Two different scriptures. A rich man, trusting in his works, believing that money makes him better than others, ( I, unfortunately know some) will not have God ruling within. Nor enter heaven above. Rightly divide.

Do the study you told mj to do. You'll see that they are one and the same thing exactly.

 

[Ralph-]

Otherwise, you search scripture with an eye of must, rather than will.

God did not take your free will away. Christians are not on auto pilot. Obedience is about yielding to the Spirit. Will we? Not always. Every honest Christian knows this.

 

[stonesoffire]

Do the study you told mj to do. You'll see that they are one and the same thing exactly.

Already have.

 

[stonesoffire]

God did not take your free will away. Christians are not on auto pilot. Obedience is about yielding to the Spirit. Will we? Not always. Every honest Christian knows this.

Free will? What is that? God is our Creator. We His creation. We are influenced by many things from our birth. How can man have free will? One would have to be God for only God has no one above Him to answer to.

We are given a free free choice at the invitation of Holy Spirit at some point in our life. The call. He knows His own, then chooses which I see as the sealing, It's defined as His royal stamp on us within. Then the process of becoming faithful.

Word studies ralph. I've done many, and some books of every word. One learns and sees much this way.

 

[stonesoffire]

Goodnight everyone..

 

[VCO]

That's what I've been saying. You have to have works when Jesus comes back or else you show that you do not love God and so do not know him in salvation.

Then Start phrasing it Correctly. Do NOT equate it to SALVATION, as you have been. HE SAVED US BECAUSE of HIS MERCY AND GRACE, WHILE WE WERE ENEMIES OF GOD. IT IS ALL OF HIS DOING, PAID FOR ON THE CROSS. HE put GOD's LOVE into our hearts and IT WILL Manifest itself in our LOVE FOR GOD, by our obedience, and our sincere LOVE for our fellow man.

Those are the FACTS. And what do we do if we fail at one point? We confess it as sin, and get right back up to resume obedience to GOD, and sincere LOVE for our fellow man. No we are not PERFECT, but perfection should be our goal, and we will not be PERFECT, until HE gives us that Glorified Body at the Resurrection or Rapture, which ever comes first.

 

[joefizz]

How? By choosing to not believe anymore because of the tribulations and trials that come with the faith (soil #2). Or, by gradually shrinking down into unbelief through an entanglement with and a love of the world (soil #3). Only those with soil #4 may have grown to a point where they are unmovable. Their roots go down deep and they do not have concern during times of drought. Their leaf always stays green.

But none of this changes the simple truth that if you have no changed life when Jesus comes back you will condemned as an unbeliever.

Well then there is quite a problem with this belief,for it implies that one can be saved,unsaved and then saved again,which the bible has no mention of being saved again,and even another problem if possible to lose one's salvation how can one regain salvation?
seeing as this also is not mentioned in the bible,if you mean rescue or redeemed instead of saved,then once more there is a problem only 144,000 are redeemed in the "tribulation period" and while yes they are saved they are not "redeemed" at the time of Jesus's return,it is "before" his return and "during the tribulation period that they are redeemed.
Well goodnight anyways and may God bless you all!

 

[Budman]

"no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."-1 John 3:15

His repentance would show if he 'came to Christ' or not. That's why no one starts a thread wondering if Hitler was saved or not. His life made it so we know. He left not doubt that he did not know Christ.

See, that's why your "works as proof" theology is so damning. It totally excludes the possibility of deathbed conversions. God saves people for HIS glory, Ralph. So the whole of creation can praise Him for His mercy. If Hitler were saved, every Christian on earth and in heaven would be praising God for His unlimited love and grace.

It's all about Christ, Ralph. Not about you, me, or anyone else.

Once again, salvation is, and remains, a gift. Not based on any works we do before, or after our conversion.

After salvation, our works are for rewards in heaven and justification before men - to the glory of God.

 

[Budman]

"no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."-1 John 3:15

And "all liars will have their part in the lake of fire" (Revelation 21:8)

Ever lied, Ralph?

Careful how you answer this, keeping in mind your behavior on this thread.

 

[Budman]

I'm confused by what you say. I do good things because its the right thing, I do it because God wants me to do good. I don't do it because I'm trying to earn something. How can you say it is not God's will, if he says go build a church, or go help the homeless? Are you saying you don't hear God, and God doesn't ask anything of you?

You said,

Whether I am saved or not, am I not doing God's will?

An unsaved person is not doing God's will, no matter how "good" they act. Again, God said their "righteous works" are "filthy rags" to Him (Isaiah 64:6). Unsaved people believe they can do enough good works to earn them a spot in heaven - which is simply an attempt to bribe the judge (God).

 

[Budman]

It was only about 10 years ago when someone told me that God is not limited by time.

The way is was explained to me is since God created time, He is outside of it, and is not subjected to it. One who is outside of time, is, of course, eternal.

 

[Budman]

If you would study James you would understand that he is not talking about saving faith, he is talking about a faith that is not being used, inoperative.

Exactly! Dead in the Greek is "nekros" and it means barren or useless.