Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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R
What is it about the difference between having a growth curve and not having a growth curve that you do not understand?
Anything more than nothing is progress.
The problem is people thinking they can live in their old lives unchanged and thinking all is good because salvation is not by works, and once you are saved you are always saved no matter what. Your changed/changing life is the basis upon which you can know all is good with you and God and that you are ready to meet him. This is what 1 John is all about.
Comfort in salvation comes from the visible work of God in your life. Not from a once saved always saved argument.
Anything more than nothing is progress.
The problem is people thinking they can live in their old lives unchanged and thinking all is good because salvation is not by works, and once you are saved you are always saved no matter what. Your changed/changing life is the basis upon which you can know all is good with you and God and that you are ready to meet him. This is what 1 John is all about.
Comfort in salvation comes from the visible work of God in your life. Not from a once saved always saved argument.
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus the Messiah! Because of his great mercy he has granted us a new birth, resulting in an immortal hope through the resurrection of Jesus, the Messiah, from the dead
1Pe 1:4 and to an inheritance kept in heaven for you that can't be destroyed, corrupted, or changed.
1Pe 1:5 Through faith you are being protected by God's power for a salvation that is ready to be revealed at the end of this era.
Ephesians 2:8 For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God
Ephesians 2:9 and not the result of actions, to put a stop to all boasting.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are God's masterpiece, created in the Messiah Jesus to perform good actions that God prepared long ago to be our way of life.
Sunk in yet? Too good to be true? Isn't Gods love awesome!
Are you just debating for the sake of debate? Like picking a side just to keep the argument going?
If so, you are dividing the body of Christ.
Otherwise, you search scripture with an eye of must, rather than will. Then look at others with this log jam.
One is the law. The other is Spirit.
?
1Pe 1:4 and to an inheritance kept in heaven for you that can't be destroyed, corrupted, or changed.
1Pe 1:5 Through faith you are being protected by God's power for a salvation that is ready to be revealed at the end of this era.
Ephesians 2:8 For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God
Ephesians 2:9 and not the result of actions, to put a stop to all boasting.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are God's masterpiece, created in the Messiah Jesus to perform good actions that God prepared long ago to be our way of life.
Sunk in yet? Too good to be true? Isn't Gods love awesome!
Are you just debating for the sake of debate? Like picking a side just to keep the argument going?
If so, you are dividing the body of Christ.
Otherwise, you search scripture with an eye of must, rather than will. Then look at others with this log jam.
One is the law. The other is Spirit.
?
R
Budman is hypergrace. He openly admits it. He plainly said the person living in his old life is still saved no matter what.
Most others don't openly admit that they believe grace makes it so they don't have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. They show by their lives that's what they believe.
Most others don't openly admit that they believe grace makes it so they don't have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. They show by their lives that's what they believe.
Free will? What is that? God is our Creator. We His creation. We are influenced by many things from our birth. How can man have free will? One would have to be God for only God has no one above Him to answer to.
We are given a free free choice at the invitation of Holy Spirit at some point in our life. The call. He knows His own, then chooses which I see as the sealing, It's defined as His royal stamp on us within. Then the process of becoming faithful.
Word studies ralph. I've done many, and some books of every word. One learns and sees much this way.
Then Start phrasing it Correctly. Do NOT equate it to SALVATION, as you have been. HE SAVED US BECAUSE of HIS MERCY AND GRACE, WHILE WE WERE ENEMIES OF GOD. IT IS ALL OF HIS DOING, PAID FOR ON THE CROSS. HE put GOD's LOVE into our hearts and IT WILL Manifest itself in our LOVE FOR GOD, by our obedience, and our sincere LOVE for our fellow man.
Those are the FACTS. And what do we do if we fail at one point? We confess it as sin, and get right back up to resume obedience to GOD, and sincere LOVE for our fellow man. No we are not PERFECT, but perfection should be our goal, and we will not be PERFECT, until HE gives us that Glorified Body at the Resurrection or Rapture, which ever comes first.
Those are the FACTS. And what do we do if we fail at one point? We confess it as sin, and get right back up to resume obedience to GOD, and sincere LOVE for our fellow man. No we are not PERFECT, but perfection should be our goal, and we will not be PERFECT, until HE gives us that Glorified Body at the Resurrection or Rapture, which ever comes first.
J
Well then there is quite a problem with this belief,for it implies that one can be saved,unsaved and then saved again,which the bible has no mention of being saved again,and even another problem if possible to lose one's salvation how can one regain salvation?
seeing as this also is not mentioned in the bible,if you mean rescue or redeemed instead of saved,then once more there is a problem only 144,000 are redeemed in the "tribulation period" and while yes they are saved they are not "redeemed" at the time of Jesus's return,it is "before" his return and "during the tribulation period that they are redeemed.
Well goodnight anyways and may God bless you all!
seeing as this also is not mentioned in the bible,if you mean rescue or redeemed instead of saved,then once more there is a problem only 144,000 are redeemed in the "tribulation period" and while yes they are saved they are not "redeemed" at the time of Jesus's return,it is "before" his return and "during the tribulation period that they are redeemed.
Well goodnight anyways and may God bless you all!
See, that's why your "works as proof" theology is so damning. It totally excludes the possibility of deathbed conversions. God saves people for HIS glory, Ralph. So the whole of creation can praise Him for His mercy. If Hitler were saved, every Christian on earth and in heaven would be praising God for His unlimited love and grace.
It's all about Christ, Ralph. Not about you, me, or anyone else.
Once again, salvation is, and remains, a gift. Not based on any works we do before, or after our conversion.
After salvation, our works are for rewards in heaven and justification before men - to the glory of God.
It's all about Christ, Ralph. Not about you, me, or anyone else.
Once again, salvation is, and remains, a gift. Not based on any works we do before, or after our conversion.
After salvation, our works are for rewards in heaven and justification before men - to the glory of God.
You said,
An unsaved person is not doing God's will, no matter how "good" they act. Again, God said their "righteous works" are "filthy rags" to Him (Isaiah 64:6). Unsaved people believe they can do enough good works to earn them a spot in heaven - which is simply an attempt to bribe the judge (God).