Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

Look at verse 4. Paul said they had not struggled against sin to the point of blood YET. Few in the church do. But some do. The thief on the cross was one of them. He was suffering horribly but he endured to the end and did not revile and mock Jesus despite his suffering. The other thief did not show any signs of an enduring faith. We know who was saved and who was not by this. We don't even wonder. But some in this thread would have it that we can't tell where saving faith resides by behavior.

The thief repented. And something about Jesus was understood by him. So his hope was placed in another, for he knew he deserved death. Maybe he heard the stories or saw the miracles? We don't really know. But, we do know that henplaced his faith in the only one who could help at that point. That's our salvation.

Am sure hes working in the kingdom now.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Gather your case and send it to a mod.

i would rather you come to the truth


romans 3

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law

 

[stonesoffire]

Gather your case and send it to a mod.

I think he just told you to do it. Or forgive.

 

[joefizz]

Report away "Ralph-" many have called you on your lies in this thread.

You've done it numerous times without apology, ignoring what others actually teach, what they really say, then you lie some more and say they said and believe things never said.

That's it, get the mods and report it to them, certainly they are able to see the facts.

"Ralph-" don't simply own up to the several here who have called you on lying, and have asked you to stop lying. Report it instead of repenting. Right? Ignore your own behavior, yes?

That's your fruit right there, lying, not repenting, while preaching to others about having good works. Scripture calls that hypocrisy, right? Take a long hard look at the way you've lied on others here, that you have not apologized or even stopped such behavior, that you continue it, and ignore what others say and pretend they've said the opposite.

Not to mention the name calling and derogation you also practice.

Yet you're preaching how important a changed life is?

Wow, talk about self deception man!

Watching Bruno Mars' Lazy Song since we are so lazy after all I mean why not "give in",hahaha hahaha!?(Joefizz is incapacitated currently)

 

[blue_ladybug]

No one has said that we can't be saved without works. Works are a natural by-product of salvation. We ARE to do them... but not for the purpose of KEEPING salvation. Salvation doesn't need to be kept. We don't "own" our salvation, God does, and only He alone owns our salvation.

That's why we can not be saved without works. People without works show they do not have the salvation that comes by faith apart from works.

 

[stonesoffire]

I am frustrated to the point of exasperation that you can not grasp the point I was making. I will not attempt to make you understand what I was saying.

You shared what it is that you wanted to share and let's just leave it at that.

Perhaps a break is needed? People do need a certain amount of rest. I really think that was what happened with Fran.

And coming into the rest of God through Jesus is great peace Ralph.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Thank you, Post. You are very humble indeed..

i would also be honored to be "there for blue"


or not. humility is good

 

[blue_ladybug]

Angry, closed-off and bull headed. NonameMcGee? REALLY?

NONE of those words describe him. I'll tell you what words DO describe him, though. Bright, smart and discerning..

I've read your posts. You used to be thoughtful and inquisitive and respectful and open. Now you are angry, closed off, and bull headed. What happened?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Thank you, P4T..

No problem, I didn't see your request, sorry. Just PM whenever if you want, you don't need to ask first.

 

[preacher4truth]

The thief repented. And something about Jesus was understood by him. So his hope was placed in another, for he knew he deserved death. Maybe he heard the stories or saw the miracles? We don't really know. But, we do know that henplaced his faith in the only one who could help at that point. That's our salvation.

Am sure hes working in the kingdom now.

Yes. It is so obvious that the thief there on the cross was regenerated by Christ. His confession, all that he said about himself and about Christ showed he had a spiritual encounter with Christ unto salvation, that Christ was revealed to him, Matthew 11:25-30, and the evidence proves this to be the case. Most miss this glaring evidence curtailing the entire thing and say that the thief just decided to choose Jesus and the other didn't. This is to miss out on so much that took place within this man. It is there for those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, by God's grace.

 

[preacher4truth]

Thank you, Post. You are very humble indeed..

And posthuman is so proud of his humility. Wait!? NEVER MIND!!!

(messing with you brother posthuman! LOL!)

 

[stonesoffire]

Well, off to bed with me. Really Ralph, if you are still here, get some rest!

 

[blue_ladybug]

Ya know Ralph, just an observation here but the same words you used for Noname, fit YOU much better.

Angry, bull headed, closed off and disrespectful.

And that's sad.

Gather your case and send it to a mod.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow, this thread has turned into a CC vs Ralph thread. It just continues.

Don’t worry, Ralph wont say a thing to the Mods. I doubt he is that far out there that he does not know what he is doing. He is not going to bring any attention to himself..

Wow he is now attacking no name saying all those things.. How far will he go?? Better yet, how far will people let him continue.. if anyone needs reported. I think we know who it is..

 

[Ralph-]

No one has said that we can't be saved without works. Works are a natural by-product of salvation. We ARE to do them

This is what I've been saying. Works are required for salvation when Jesus comes back because if you're not a changed/changing person you are showing that you are not a saved person who, as you point out, naturally does them.

People who 'live in' the sinful life they had before they confessed Christ are showing that their confession of Christ did not result in salvation. That is not a popular thing to say in the church today. You'll get flogged for saying what the Bible says.

 

[Seohce]

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom GOD HAS GIVEN TO THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.”

New International Version 1984 Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.




Romans 3:4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

 

[blue_ladybug]

You left off the part where I said we are to do works, BUT NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF KEEPING salvation. When Jesus returns, we don't get judged right then and there.

So if you shovel snow off your neighbor's driveway, will that keep your salvation? NO IT WON'T. Works do not keep us our salvation. Once God gives it to us, that's it. He won't snatch it away just because of how few works we may have..

This is what I've been saying. Works are required for salvation when Jesus comes back because if you're not a changed/changing person you are showing that you are not a saved person who, as you point out, naturally does them.

People who 'live in' the sinful life they had before they confessed Christ are showing that their confession of Christ did not result in salvation. That is not a popular thing to say in the church today. You'll get flogged for saying what the Bible says.

 

[Ralph-]

Don’t worry, Ralph wont say a thing to the Mods.

Too late. Already did.

It isn't that you people think I'm a liar, or that I'm Fran. It's the hostile environment that you create by constantly accusing me of being a liar and demanding I prove that I'm not. That's what you're doing wrong. You can't push and provoke people until you get them to do something that will get them banned.

So, people, stop being defensive and having to be right no matter what and making this about you. Stick to the topic.

You have to have works when Jesus comes back or you are showing you are not born again and you will be rejected by Christ for being lawless. If you people are sure you agree with this let's end this thread and move on.

 

[Seohce]

This is what I've been saying. Works are required for salvation when Jesus comes back because if you're not a changed/changing person you are showing that you are not a saved person who, as you point out, naturally does them.

People who 'live in' the sinful life they had before they confessed Christ are showing that their confession of Christ did not result in salvation. That is not a popular thing to say in the church today. You'll get flogged for saying what the Bible says.

New International Version 1984 John 12:42-50 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

 

[Ralph-]

You left off the part where I said we are to do works, BUT NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF KEEPING salvation.

You can discuss that with someone who is leveling that argument. I'm not. That's why I left it off. I don't believe that works earn or keep salvation. They are only the evidence of salvation.