Not By Works

[mailmandan]

Those who believe and are saved: "Jesus saved me!"

Those who are on probation: "No he did not!!!"

Salvation is not probation.

Eternal life is not temporary life.

Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

 

[Ralph-]

Salvation is not probation.

Eternal life is not temporary life.

Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

Which means nothing if you are a thorn bush and not a fruit bearing plant when Jesus comes back.

Do what counts. Be a new creation. Arguing if salvation can be lost or not does not prepare a person for Jesus' return. Being a new creation does.

 

[Ralph-]

Those who believe and are saved: "Jesus saved me!"

Those who are on probation: "No he did not!!!"

Be ready. That's what counts. Teach people what counts. Be a grape vine, not a thorn bush when Jesus returns.

 

[Ralph-]

Sadly many people will think they have mercy and the washing, and we will think many have the spirit and the washing, who have never known God. All because they do what we think are good works.

Instead of focusing on works, focus on true faith. God does not need proof. HE KNOWS. Lets give God the glory, and stop giving people the glory because they do some good works.

The Bible says what the fruit is of those who Jesus is coming back for. And it is not what some in the church, including pastors and leaders think it is. It is not your church attendance, your Bible study, your church support, your programs, the correctness of your doctrine, the ardent proclamation of his grace, the praise of his name. But that is what some in the church think shows they belong to God but who live in disobedience and lawlessness. They will be among those who are rejected by Jesus because they were lawless and did not do the will of the Father in being a new creation according to the fruit of the Spirit. They say they have faith but by their lives show they do not. They are in the land of the thorns and thistles that will be burned up in the end.

Don't be a thorn bush when Jesus returns. That's what matters. Leave the matter of if you can lose your salvation to the contentious who don't know what counts.

 

[mailmandan]

Which means nothing if you are a thorn bush and not a fruit bearing plant when Jesus comes back.

Do what counts. Be a new creation. Arguing if salvation can be lost or not does not prepare a person for Jesus' return. Being a new creation does.

I'm not arguing and those who are born of God are new creations in Christ and bear fruit. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So this begs the question, "I don't have any fruit. How can I know I'm really a grape vine and not a thorn bush?"

The Bible answer is, move on to maturity, be diligent to bear the fruit of a grape vine, then you won't have to wonder if you are one or not. You will be doing what we are told to do which is 'make your calling and election sure'-2 Peter 1:10. The Bible does not say, just take it on faith and continue to live in your old ways because it doesn't matter. I'm sure that's exactly how you make sure you are not a grape vine at all.

You had me until your normal strawman of saying that people who have true faith would go on living in sin. If you left that out, we could agree.

Your too focused on works. Thats dangerous.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ is coming back to harvest the wheat and to bring it into his barn and to bundle the tares up and burn them.

Make sure you're a planting of wheat and not a tare. Do what the Bible says. Grow up to maturity and bear the fruit of a wheat plant so you'll know for sure what you are and whether you'll be saved when He comes back or destroyed.

It doesn't matter if you can lose your salvation or not. What matters is that you are a planting of God when Jesus comes back.

This is very dangerous. If our FAITH is not in the trustworthyness of God., who said WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. Then how can we claim to have faith at all? What is it in? John said he wrote his words so we may KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.and by this FACT, we can continue to trust him.

Trust and faith comes from the HOPE of eternal life. WHich God, who can not lie, promised before time began.,

If we do not understand our security in christ, to know we are saved eternally by Gods promise. We have no root which to plant ourselves into. If we are not attached to the vine, we will not produce fruit. We may do these good deeds, and THINK we are producing fruit. But it is not real fruit, it is the fruit of the pharisee, which is tainted, rotten, not useful for anything.

We do not plant the wheat, God plants it, again, you are to focused on yourself. And works, and not focused on God. That is religion, and not grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Those who believe and are saved: "Jesus saved me!"

Those who are on probation: "No he did not!!!"

Or.. He saved me, but my salvation is not secure, I must maintain it or it will be lost which is reality is saying your not saved at all. But you are deceived into thinking you are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which means nothing if you are a thorn bush and not a fruit bearing plant when Jesus comes back.

Do what counts. Be a new creation. Arguing if salvation can be lost or not does not prepare a person for Jesus' return. Being a new creation does.

You may not even be alive when Jesus comes back. Stop worrying about when Jesus comes back, and worry about today. And stop judging others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Bible says what the fruit is of those who Jesus is coming back for. And it is not what some in the church, including pastors and leaders think it is. It is not your church attendance, your Bible study, your church support, your programs, the correctness of your doctrine, the ardent proclamation of his grace, the praise of his name. But that is what some in the church think shows they belong to God but who live in disobedience and lawlessness. They will be among those who are rejected by Jesus because they were lawless and did not do the will of the Father in being a new creation according to the fruit of the Spirit. They say they have faith but by their lives show they do not. They are in the land of the thorns and thistles that will be burned up in the end.

Don't be a thorn bush when Jesus returns. That's what matters. Leave the matter of if you can lose your salvation to the contentious who don't know what counts.

Oh boy, what church do you go to?

Fruit is people. It is the people who will be with us in heaven who were lifted up by our lives, by our help or by our guidance. It is people we have led to the Lord. It is people we have loved, and have been used by God to interact with and help and serve.

A rare is not saved, He is a person who is living with the saved ones (wheat) who. As God said, he does not destroy the tales because he may destroy some wheat in the process. So he lets them live together, he will seperate tyhem in the end, when he rewards the wheat and judges the tares.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not arguing and those who are born of God are new creations in Christ and bear fruit. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.

There are baby trees. And mature trees, And even some mature trees have off years where they do not bear much fruit. (I had an apple tree this year that always produces well, this year, we have very few apples and they were eaten by the squirels befor they had time to ripen) there is a reason God used things we can see as an examples of spiritual truths, what is sad is when people do not see them for what they are, and what is pictured.

Fruit inspectors are out worried about how much fruit, and need to be focused on people they can serve, so they can bear fruit themselves.

 

[Ralph-]

There are baby trees. And mature trees, And even some mature trees have off years where they do not bear much fruit. (I had an apple tree this year that always produces well, this year, we have very few apples and they were eaten by the squirels befor they had time to ripen) there is a reason God used things we can see as an examples of spiritual truths, what is sad is when people do not see them for what they are, and what is pictured.

Fruit inspectors are out worried about how much fruit, and need to be focused on people they can serve, so they can bear fruit themselves.

Grape vines, though they bear no fruit, being immature, don't have thorns on them. Understand?

 

[Ralph-]

You may not even be alive when Jesus comes back. Stop worrying about when Jesus comes back, and worry about today. And stop judging others.

I will be very much alive when Jesus comes back. The only person who doesn't have to worry about the coming judgement are those who are like Jesus in this world-1 John 4:17.

Prepare for his appearing. Make sure you have the faith that saves. Be a planting of God when Jesus comes back. Don't be a thorn bush.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Grape vines, though they bear no fruit, being immature, don't have thorns on them. Understand?

What I understand is that you are way to focused on works. Your a dangerous person, because all you want to do is get people to look at self. At performance. And what they are doing, which takes focus off God, and the people around us God wants us to love and serve.

You promote religion (Hey God look at me, look at what I am doing) and not the Christian faith (God, let me know ho you want me to serve today, Help me to keep my focus off self. And seek out people whome I can serve) and as with every works based theology which ever lived (from Judaism, to Islam, to Paganism, to False Christianity) leads people to doom and gloom with no hope, where only the people who water Down Gods law, who proudly boast of how good they are proven by their works, can survive in any way (unless they have some hidden sin, which when it is exposed, and it always is, tears a person down, and gives God a bad name, It leads to people hiding sins, afraid to tell others and seek help, because they KNOW they will be judged (if you knew God you would not do such a thing) instead of seeking out a shepherd or disciples who will walk side by side with them in grace as they defeat the demon of sin which is in them,

You can have your religion. I lived it, I was almost destroyed by it, I saw many loved people destroyed by it. Who walked away angry and bitter because of the church which no more resembles God, or his son, than satan himself.

 

[Ralph-]

I'm not arguing and those who are born of God are new creations in Christ and bear fruit. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.

And whether you can lose your salvation or not has nothing to do with that. Either you'll be a grape vine when Jesus returns or you'll be a thorn bush. That's what we are to be concerned with.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I will be very much alive when Jesus comes back. The only person who doesn't have to worry about the coming judgement are those who are like Jesus in this world-1 John 4:17.

Prepare for his appearing. Make sure you have the faith that saves. Be a planting of God when Jesus comes back. Don't be a thorn bush.

So if Jesus comes back 1000 years from now you will be alive?

Give it up dude..

TYhe only people who have to worry about what happens when Jesus returns are those who have not believed in the only Name of the son of God, the christ child. The savior. For as John said, they are condemned ALREADY (they have always been and still are in a state of condemnation)

works have nothing to do with it..

 

[PennEd]

I will be very much alive when Jesus comes back. The only person who doesn't have to worry about the coming judgement are those who are like Jesus in this world-1 John 4:17.

Prepare for his appearing. Make sure you have the faith that saves. Be a planting of God when Jesus comes back. Don't be a thorn bush.

So I'M supposed to muster up the necessary faith?

How on Earth can that not be a works for Salvation?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And whether you can lose your salvation or not has nothing to do with that. Either you'll be a grape vine when Jesus returns or you'll be a thorn bush. That's what we are to be concerned with.

You either really believe this stuff, in which I feel sorry for you. Or you are making this stuff up to try to goat us into responding. Sadly from what your group has done in the past. I do not know which is true

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So I'M supposed to muster up the necessary faith?

How on Earth can that not be a works for Salvation?

You not only need to muster it up. But you better prove it by works, and keep proving it until Christ returns. Or you will be lost

 

[mailmandan]

And whether you can lose your salvation or not has nothing to do with that. Either you'll be a grape vine when Jesus returns or you'll be a thorn bush. That's what we are to be concerned with.

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers who bear fruit/produce a crop and there are make believers who bear thorns and thistles.