Not By Works

[PJW]

News flash, "Sinless Perfection" is a heresy.

If "Sinless Perfection" is so heretically bad, why did it take just one sin for Adam to get kicked out of the garden?

 

[dcontroversal]

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

DO YOU LOVE GOD? DO YOU OBEY EVERYTHING HE HAS COMMANDED YOU? YES OR NO? IS HE YOUR LORD OR YOU ARE HIS LORD? WHO IS LORD AND WHO IS THE SERVANT?

DON'T EVEN DARE TO MOCK GOD!

Let us all guess...YOU do everything the LORD commanded 24/7/365 because you are sinless and saved by your perfect works right.....?

Go bark up another tree........until you can be honest with scripture, what is said by myself and others and yourself we have no basis for dialogue.....

 

[PJW]

Perhaps he means the ecclesia? But how could one attend that, when we are that? There is a church of that name in Houston, Texas, though

Are you personally familiar with that Houston church?
I tried to look them up on the computer, but failed.

I know we once had a group there, but we lost contact with them.

 

[PJW]

Okay, but website or not, teaching sinless perfection doctrine is wrong with or without a website...

Do you deny that Jesus conquered sin while in the flesh?

 

[PJW]

Scripture accuses him: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8 Why else would we be told to confess our sins to each other? Believers, brothers and sisters in Christ, were being addressed.

John was addressing two different types of men.
Those who walk in darkness and those who walk in light.
Those in darkness cannot say they have fellowship with God, or that they have no sin. Or for that matter, that they never had sinned.
Those in the light, which is God, have had ALL their sins washed away by the blood of Christ, and can say "I have no sin".
Only a false repentance from sin would accommodate a return to darkness-sin.
You can't have fellowship with God that is based on a lie.

 

[PJW]

Hi Magenta, I just did a search of churches in Houston, Texas and came up with nothing under that name, "The Church by Jesus Christ" ​but thanks for your info.

You neglected to add the "(Eph 3:21)"

 

[dcontroversal]

It is not about worshiping God on any day. It is about following him who loves all by faith that works by love.

Jesus tells us that if any are following the traditions of man that BREAK THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD they are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9). It is the breaking of God's commandments that is the problem.

If you wish to follow the traditions of man, and your not breaking the commandments of God (Ex 20:8-11) then everything is ok and there is nothing to worry about for you. If your tradition however leads you to SIN by breaking God's commandments (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20) then you stand guilty before God and are still in your sins........................

If anyone is living a life of known unrepentant sin are they in a saved state or an unsaved state before God....................

Hebrews 10
26, For IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER WE HAVE RECEIVED A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, 27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Acts 17
30, IN TIMES OF IGNORANCE GOD WINKS AT; BUT NOW COMMANDS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT:
31, Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of men the that has deceived many to forsake the 4th commandment. It is forsaking God's Word to follow the traditions of men that lead to breaking God's commandments leading to SIN that is the problem.

Who do we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Word of God or the teachings and traditions of man?


May God bless you as you seek him through his Word....

Conflating truths and mixing scriptures out of context does not = truth.....the disciples MET DAILY in ACTS and were blessed by GOD with growth, maturity and spiritual blessings.....this proof alone negates your incessant Sabbath keeping = being right attitude mate.....

 

[PJW]

Repost: some may be interested in this article some may not.

Question: "What is the Holiness movement / church?"

Answer: The Holiness movement/church is an influence within Christianity that teaches that a person can achieve perfect holiness, or sinless perfection, while on earth.

"Achieve"?
Those born of God start out perfect.
What else can Godly seed produce?

This doctrine teaches “entire sanctification,” which usually comes via a spiritual experience that those in the Holiness movement refer to as the “second work of grace” or the “second blessing.” The Holiness movement is opposed by Reformed thinkers, who assert that original sin still exists in even the most faithful person.
.

I guess either they don't believe that when the blood of Christ is applied to our bodies we are as sanctified as the instruments of the temple were in OT days.
Those "reformed thinkers" have adopted catholic theology...much to their detriment.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Conflating truths and mixing scriptures out of context does not = truth.....the disciples MET DAILY in ACTS and were blessed by GOD with growth, maturity and spiritual blessings.....this proof alone negates your incessant Sabbath keeping = being right attitude mate.....

God's Word my friend not mine we believe God or we do not. Everything is as it should be. I do not judge you. It is God's Word that will judge all of us in the last days (John 12:47-48). Sin will keep you out of the Kingdom and is why we all need to seek him while we can today. Tomorrow may be too late. We only have today. The disciples can meet everyday it is great but where in God's Word does it say in God's Word that God's 4th commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? Fact is that there is no scriptures for this.

Who do we believe God or man? It is s fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. He we forgive all that seek him in repentance and ask his forgiveness. Known Sin will keep you out of God's Kingdom.

 

[PJW]

Thank you, TruthTalk , that is an interesting read

I found this earlier on sinless perfectionism: The Heresy of Perfectionism

May God bless you for your searches, though I am afraid anything you find on-line will not be from Godly sources.

 

[PJW]

Okay have it your way, but it is still considered a heresy to teach "sinless perfection" not biblical. I have spoken to a few people at our church who came out of the "Holiness Movement", and every one say's it was the best decision in their life to leave, it is considered a cult by many. God bless.

Jesus, the non-heretic, said this..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

 

[PJW]

Only in him who loves all do we have life. Who art thou Lord? I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. It is hard to kick against the pricks.

God bless you all

"In Him" there is no sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

God's Word my friend not mine we believe God or we do not. Everything is as it should be. I do not judge you. It is God's Word that will judge all of us in the last days (John 12:47-48). Sin will keep you out of the Kingdom and is why we all need to seek him while we can today. Tomorrow may be too late. We only have today. The disciples can meet everyday it is great but where in God's Word does it say in God's Word that God's 4th commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? Fact is that there is no scriptures for this.

Who do we believe God or man? It is s fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. He we forgive all that seek him in repentance and ask his forgiveness. Known Sin will keep you out of God's Kingdom.

I repeat what I already said.....pay attention to the bolded....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal Conflating truths and mixing scriptures out of context does not = truth.....the disciples MET DAILY in ACTS and were blessed by GOD with growth, maturity and spiritual blessings.....this proof alone negates your incessant Sabbath keeping = being right attitude mate.....

 

[PJW]

Personal agenda or profit......man your off the rails.........and I will say it one more time....receive it or not and feel free to never address me again if you cannot understand the facts that are laid out...

a. Jesus was born, lived and died under the LAW which RATIFIED the NEW Covenant and EVERYTHING he said needs to be understood in that LIGHT and the fact that a TRANSITION was taking place from the OLD to the NEW.

b. I have answered NUMEROUS times....THE SPIRIT is BORN again of INCORRUPTABLE SEED ETERNALLY in CHRIST, saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in CHRIST....SAID spirit is STILL BOUND IN A SINFUL, DEAD BODY OF SIN that is not subject unto the law or word of GOD and neither indeed CAN BE....the BATTLE GROUND IS THE MIND where decisions are made....IF TRANSFORMED by the renewing of the MIND a SAVED man will submit MORE and MORE to the truth and SIN LESS, but will NEVER BE COMPLETELY SINLESS until they have a NEW BODY in the resurrection and or change.

c. THERE is not a JUST MAN UPON THE EARTH that does GOOD and SINS NOT!

Re: b...How often do you have to grab your hand so it doesn't steal from an open cash register?
How often do you have to kick your right leg with your left leg to get you back down to the speed limit?
Your "sinful, dead body of sin" can be destroyed by it's crucifixion, burial and resurrection with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
The results"?
"For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)

Your "skin" CANNOT make you commit sin.
Your "mind" controls what you do or don't do,

 

[joefizz]

Let's not overlook the obvious, hidden in plain sight, "Rejoice in all circumstances, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." We enter His presence with thanksgiving and remain in His will, in the relationship Jesus had with the Father while He was on earth: left as our inheritance in His will, in the communion of the last supper, "This is my body broken for you." It's the Holy Spirit that enables us to Love as God Loves, "Not of works lest any man should boast." The fact that we cant achieve perfect Love was established, "By the works of the Law no one will be made right with God." The Holy Spirit had to be given and our sins forgiven. Admitting we don't love as God loves and praying for one another." All manner of sin shall be forgiven to man, but rejecting the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven."

cool another past member,glad to see you posting!

 

[PJW]

Actually it will produce a saved child of GOD <---present tense with eternal results...was saved, am saved and continuing to be saved

I agree with your assertion, about a true repentance from sin.
It will produce a saved child of God....if they endure till the final judgement.

Why would someone who you say was saved need to be continually saved?

 

[VCO]

Okay, but website or not, teaching sinless perfection doctrine is wrong with or without a website...

AND then PJW comes back to trying in vain to set you up the very way ALL FALSE PROPHETS TRAIN THEIR PROSELYTES.

PJW said, "Do you deny that Jesus conquered sin while in the flesh? " A trained auto response to set you up to hit you, where they think you will have to agree with their false doctrine. Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons do the same thing; but when you ask a question that they do not have a trained auto response for, they are trained to just ignore the question. Amazing how alike the various psuedo-christian Cults really are.


Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
.

 

[PJW]

MAKE no mistake....your disobedience and sin has been pointed out by more than a few in this thread....you are not as righteous as you think......

Is there any reason, besides our different doctrines, that you accuse me of disobedience and sin?

 

[PJW]

More vacillating on your part here in this verse....according to you, your not reborn yet and that will not come till the judgment.....so which is it...born of the spirit NOW and SAVED or not born again and saved until the end....

Man you vacillate more than the waves on Bondi beach in Sydney.....

You've misunderstood.
I have been reborn, and from Godly seed. and will continue to endure till the day of judgement.
My judgement will result in my salvation. (Matt 10:22, 24:13)

 

[Zi]

Salvation from what? Seems you still need that heart of stone chiseled at

You've misunderstood.
I have been reborn, and from Godly seed. and will continue to endure till the day of judgement.
My judgement will result in my salvation. (Matt 10:22, 24:13)