Not By Works

[BillG]

Very nice post BillG

I agree with this. I will just add however that you cannot separate love from obedience to God's Law because it is only through faith that works by love that anyone can be obedient to follow God.

Obedience is the fruit of faith that works by love and love is the fulfilling of God's Law who walk in His Spirit by faith. It is through love that God writes his law in our heart so that we can follow him who loves all (Matthew 22:36-40; Matthew 19:16-20; Romans 13:8-19; James 2:8-12; Romans 8:1-4; Hebrews 8:10-12).

This is why Jesus says; If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15) because love is the fulfilling of God's Law. Jesus says to all of us; But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you (John 5:42). This is why it is written; truly truly I say unto you unless a man is born of the Spirit and of water he cannot enter the Kingdom of God (John 3:5). Whoever loves is born of God (1 John 4:7) and whosoever is born of God does not practice sin (1 John 3:9). Obedience is the fruit of love that comes by faith.

Faith in the Word of creation gives the sinner the power to walk on water when he bids us come. It is only by abiding in Him who loves all through faith that we can take up our bed and follow him because he bids us come.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word......

Thanks for responding and you kind words.

Yes I agree with you. We cannot separate love from obedience.

Jesus summed up the law in two commandments.


Matthew 22:37-40


37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Love and obedience are intrinsic.
You cannot separate them.

To me this is why Jesus came against the Pharisees, they had the obedience but not love.

God bless you my friend as well.
He knows our hearts

 

[stonesoffire]

I’m not offended.. I wanted to know why you spoke that in regard to my post..

It is your belief that you will receive rewards in heaven for any good deeds you do?.. like you are secured a place regardless but extra rewards for your good deeds?

You dont? The scriptures speak of rewards. I'm not sure if the rewards are for good deeds, but in my knowing the Lord, I wouldn't put it past Him. I think it's about faith in believing Him. But, it's just my opinion.

And yes, I'm secure in knowing I have a place in heaven because I trust in the Cross and Resurrection of Jesus.

 

[BillG]

Night night peeps.

Remenber that God loves us as much as he loves Jesus.

Our Father is the same today as he was yesterday and will be the same tomorrow.

Jesus is greater than it all, than it all.

 

[PJW]

Romans 4:2-5 (GWT)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] If Abraham had God's approval because of something he did, he would have had a reason to brag. But he could not brag to God about it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and that faith was regarded by God to be his approval of Abraham.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] When people work, their pay is not regarded as a gift but something they have earned.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] However, when people don't work but believe God, the one who approves ungodly people, their faith is regarded as God's approval.

Are you really happy to remain "ungodly"?
After all that God and Jesus have done, especially their conquest of sin while in the flesh, you still won't submit to His will?

You will not have a SINLESS BODY, until the Resurrection.

I will believe God and scripture before I believe that.
It is written..."[FONT=&quot]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:6-7)
That I believe.[/FONT]

 

[LoveGodForever]

Yes, Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2) and we are exhorted to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Peter 3:18). Believers are no longer slaves of sin, but slaves of righteousness and only genuine believers obey the Lord.

We believe IN HIM by trusting IN HIM for salvation (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..) and doing what He instructs us afterwards is works and we are saved through faith, not works (Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5 etc..). Doing is a manifestation of our belief, not to be confused with belief itself.

Amen! Yet I'm still hearing some double talk in other statements that you make.

Yet you deny him by breaking his commandments to follow the teachings and traditions of man (Exodus 20:8-11; Matthew 15:3-9)?

Undeserved indeed and we love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).
Genuine believers believe the Messiah, yet others, like the unbelieving Jews (Romans 10:1-4) did not believe Him and many people today misinterpret Jesus and believe in law keeping as the means of their salvation, rather than believing/trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation (Romans 1:16; 10:16; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4).

I have not met anyone here that believe or claim they have their salvation by keeping God's Law. Who is saying this to you? If no one is saying this to you and agree that we are not saved by the works of the law then you have no argument. If you have no argument why are you arguing?

1 John 5:3 - For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. BTY the word "keep" is from the Greek word "tereo."

Strong's Concordance
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact.

The problem is when men turn keeping the commandments into a legalistic prescription for receiving eternal life and define the word "keep" as sinless, perfect obedience to all of His commandments 100% of the time. Then salvation is no longer based on faith in Christ, but is based on the merits of man's performance/works.

Ditto... I have not met anyone here that believe or claim they have their salvation by keeping God's Law. Who is saying this to you? If no one is saying this to you and agree that we are not saved by the works of the law then you have no argument. If you have no argument why are you arguing? Strawmen?

Also, keeping Sabbath day with all it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23; 31:12-18; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21; 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16,17) Yet there are those who are obsessed with the Sabbath day and basically turn the gospel into "keep the Sabbath day or perish" which is clearly a "different" gospel.

The scriptures you quoted are not binding on Christian as they were part of the Mosaic law but the 4th commandment of God's Law is one of the 10 and is the standard of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come and is indeed binding on all just as all the other commandments (James 2:8-12).

Did you know that under the Mosaic law (laws of Moses) besides the 4th commandment of the weekly Sabbath there were other New Moon and special annual Sabbaths that could fall on any day of the week? these were also Holy convocations that were connected to the Jewish annual festivals that no work was allowed and meat and drink sin offering's were required as part of these annual fests. This is what Col 2:14-17; Eph 2 and Romans 14 are all referring to.

Let's use the scriptures interpret scripture.............................

These are just a few scriptures liked here:

Yet there are those who are obsessed with the Sabbath day and basically turn the gospel into "keep the Sabbath day or perish" which is clearly a "different" gospel.

Friend not at all. It is our duty of love to help our fellow man enter into God's Kingdom. None living a life of known unrepentant sin will enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27; James 2:8-12) You must be born again to love him as he first loved us and love is the fulfilling of God's Law in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit of him who loves all (Romans 8:1-4; 1 John 4:7)

What is the different Gospel?

The different Gospel tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from Grace and faith that works by love to produce the fruit of following God's Word (obedience).............

Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is ( 1John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 24 ). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." ( Rom 2:12 ).

God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God ( Rom 3:19 ). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words s o that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) ( Matt 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32 ) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Ol d and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.

The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Saviour and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of God’s Word. ( 2Pet 1:4 ) It is here as we believe God that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he firs t loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15 ).

People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfillment of His new Covenant promise (Heb 8:10-12). Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1 John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1John 3:6)

Faith works by love and love is the fulfilling of God's Law in those who believe. If your faith does not have the fruit of obedience then you are still in your sins and need to be born of God to love as he first loved us (1 John 3:3-9; James 2:8-12; Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 4:7). Those that are still in their sins have neither seen him or known him (1 John 3:6). Likewise the wolves in sheep's clothing are exposed as it is written; He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4).

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:7-8).

This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten...............

In the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead (Acts 17:30-31).

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.....

 

[joefizz]

Are you really happy to remain "ungodly"?
After all that God and Jesus have done, especially their conquest of sin while in the flesh, you still won't submit to His will?


I will believe God and scripture before I believe that.
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:6-7)
That I believe.

You just contradicted yourself then,because you are then choosing "which" scriptures to believe instead of God's word as a whole.

 

[PJW]

It would be more honest, and certainly more accurate, to say that the people you oppose believe they have no righteousness of their own, but rather put on the righteousness of Christ through faith.

God is not blind.
Those who hate Him are not righteous.
God gives us the means to change what we used to be.
Repentance from sin.
Death and burial of the old man.
Rebirth of God's seed.
The Holy Spirit to guide us.

The unrighteous want none of that, as it would lead to a righteous man in service to God.

 

[PJW]

But lots of room for boasting?

I have nothing to boast about.
It is Christ in me that does the "work". (Gal 2:20)

 

[PJW]

You said unbelief is inconsequential...

It isn't, for those who don't manifest the effects of belief.

Do you think the devils that believe will be saved?

 

[PJW]

And we all hope and pray you abandon the False Prophet that has been deceiving you, then, you can take your own advise.

Just so you can finally understand the TERM, GRACE is receiving a free giftfrom GOD, that YOU CANNOT EARN OR EVEN KEEP, out of your own efforts. From you false teaching, you obviously did not know the meaning of the word GRACE.

I am now in favor of ignoring your posts, but lay off trying to LURE IN the lambs, that is what a WOLF PRETENDING TO BE A SHEEP DOES. I and several others here will protect the Lambs from your deceiving false doctrines.

If obedience to God betrays my faith in Him, or if obedience to God means I don't believe in Him...I'll suffer the consequences gladly.

 

[PJW]

According to you, sin manifests unbelief, which you say is inconsequential. Why then fear? Where the danger? My understanding is different. I simply wonder how you come to these conclusions that contradict Bible teachings.

If they quit committing sin, their belief would be manifested to the world.
The sin is what they will be judged for, not the unbelief.

 

[PJW]

I believe Jesus is God and therefore omniscient. Therefore, nothing would surprise Him, not even knowing that you believe yourself already perfected in Him, though He has yet to bring to completion the good work He *may have* begun in you.

Jesus didn't know the time of the end.
Jesus was the Word made flesh, not the Father made flesh.

It is written..." But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." (1 John 2:5)​

 

[PJW]

Luke 22


31And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. 33And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. 34And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.



True.. the Lord states when you are converted...

Agreed.
He will give the gift of the Holy Ghost after a real repentance from sin. (Acts 2:38)

 

[joefizz]

Jesus didn't know the time of the end.
Jesus was the Word made flesh, not the Father made flesh.

It is written..." But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." (1 John 2:5)​

Yet "in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God" so you are therefore incorrect God is the word whom is the father.

 

[PJW]

Hi VCO, I posted this comment earlier after having a conversation with PennEd. PJW claims the name of his church is "The Church by Jesus Christ." There is no such church by this name. You would think there would be some information about this fake church but there is nothin to be found on the internet at all about his fake church, nothing, he made it up in his mind.

You must have missed the "body" in Ephesus.

Quote: "The church I belong to is called "The Church by Christ Jesus (Eph3:21)" We don't have a web site though

Still true.

 

[dcontroversal]

This is true. But why dont you exegete the part where Jesus states I NEVER knew you. Not I used to know you, but you turned out to be lawless so now I do not know you anymore.

Because he pushes, espouses and spreads a false dogma of a losable salvation that can be forfeited.....

 

[tourist]

Yes, I am.
I am reborn of God's seed, and have His Spirit in me.
Are you perfect too?

I could say that I'm perfect but then I would be a liar and therefore fall short of perfection.

 

[PJW]

Then why boast of your sinlessness?

You confuse stating a fact with boasting.
It is Christ in me keeping me free from service to sin...thanks be to God.

And, why would you need an advocate if you do not sin?

The Advocate does way more than...whatever you limit Him to.

One of the true marks of ongoing sanctification is the growing awareness of how far short we fall of reaching the ideal perfection seen in Christ.

Gradual sanctification is another false doctrine developed by those insinuating sin into the body of Christ.
You are completely sanctified when the blood of Christ is applied to your body...while you hang on the cross with Jesus.

This is humbling to be sure, but God gives grace to the humble, and resists the proud. Pride was the root cause of the fall of all creation.

Those who transgress against God have in no way humbled themselves before Him.

 

[dcontroversal]

It's not about "what works" or "how many works" does it take to have a saving relationship with Christ. It's about works which are produced "out of" faith "from a saving relationship with Christ."

They absolutely cannot understand that salvation, faith, justification, being sealed and sanctified in Christ positionally is a GIFT from GOD and based entirely upon the work of Christ and acknowledging that work by faith.....and then....ANY WORK or fruit produced is a direct RESULT OF salvation NOT the SOURCE of salvation....

 

[PJW]

They may be a group of Believers with no need for a website.. I don’t like the way PJW is being called a liar.. he is witnessing of his sin free life and giving all Glory to GOD through His Faith... unless one can flat out prove he is lying then let us hold our peace and not become his accuser.

Each day we all are to strive and not sin wilfully.. GOD is able to lead and strengthen us through our Faith in the Messiah.

PJW is not stating he is keeping himself but that his Faith in Christ means he is kept from sinning..

Sinless perfection is what the Messiah wants from His flock.. He does not want us to sin.. He wants us to be perfect like our Father in Heaven.

Thank you for the defense.