Not By Works

[PJW]

Here is how it appears on my end:

Originally Posted by VCO
The scripture he was referring to was written in the OT, well before Jesus, the sinless Jesus, walked among the Israelite.
To use it to cause others to believe that no "other" man can live without sin is an abomination to those who do live in obedience to God. From the blue " marks to the period behind God is a quoted Text Box but it is not my quote, then below is your message. It is your post #42939. If it is a glitch it is a strange one.
To live without sin or obedient.
Jesus was both and only him.
To be honest your post above is no more an abomination to those who walk in obedience of faith and yet acknowlede before God they get it wrong.
You claim to be sinless and those who are not are now an abomination, by inference.
I know (via pm) and have seen it but you have made people feel worthless and a piece of crap.
Something you would wipe of your shoes as you walk on by.
What you have accused others of you fall foul yourself.
No love or compassion, just piety and condemnation.
Maybe that’s why you were banned on a Christian forum you were on a few years ago.
When you stand before Jesus and he asks
”Why should I let you in”
What will be your response?

While I appreciate your detective work, I am in no way offended by the post.
Let it go.

 

[Magenta]

Salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement.

Do you not claim with assurance that you are in Christ? If you are not sure, why then would you proclaim it? Are you not sealed by the Holy Spirit of God, which is given as a guarantee of your salvation? Can you break the seal of God? Do you think He will fail to keep His promise of bringing to completion that which He began in you?

 

[PJW]

^^ That is a link, btw Click on it and it will take you to the thread

LOL,,,Thanks.
I didn't know "Message of the cross" was a user name.
I gave her a like" too.

 

[Magenta]

LOL,,,Thanks.
I didn't know "Message of the cross" was a user name.
I gave her a like" too.

You are welcome. That person is a "he."

 

[kennethleehutch]

I can't "condemn" anybody.
If they are shown that committing sin is not of God, they will have a chance to turn from them.
To allow them to feel comfortable in their ignorance would not be loving.


Insinuate?
It is written..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
It is written in 1 John 5:8..."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
They are all one.

[h=1]Luke 17:3-4New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]3 So watch yourselves.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“If your brother or sister[a] sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”

Initial repentance is what you are talking about PJW but you must remember that we are a people that love to sin and therefore must repent on a regular basis[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

Do you not claim with assurance that you are in Christ? If you are not sure, why then would you proclaim it? Are you not sealed by the Holy Spirit of God, which is given as a guarantee of your salvation? Can you break the seal of God? Do you think He will fail to keep His promise of bringing to completion that which He began in you?

Good questions...
I do claim with assurance that I am in Christ.
I am sealed by the holy Spirit of God. (The seal of the inheritance)
I cannot break the seal of God.
He will keep His promise.
The seal of the inheritance is a "down payment, for something yet to come.
But I can always walk away from the faith, (God forbid), manifesting that my repentance was a lie, that I loved something above God: and I know you can't have a relationship with God that is based on a lie.
Salvation will not be accorded to idolaters.

 

[BillG]

I can't "condemn" anybody.
If they are shown that committing sin is not of God, they will have a chance to turn from them.
To allow them to feel comfortable in their ignorance would not be loving.


Insinuate?
It is written..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
It is written in 1 John 5:8..."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
They are all one.

Peter seemed to think more of baptism: in 1 Peter 3:21, he wrote..."The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
This was the verse that provoked me to become a Christian.
I wanted more than anything to have a good conscience towards God.
My "immersion" into Christ's death allowed me to also partake in His resurrection, (Rom 6:3-6), being reborn of Godly seed.

I agree with your 1st sentence I You or anyone else cannot condemn anyone. Jesus is the ultimate judge.
Every genuine beliver knows that committing sin is not of God, which is why they come before God and confess is and ask for help.

You are also right that if someone is not walking according to God’s way it would only be loving to correct them

But can you not see it, you do come across as condemning and not loving.
If people do not agree with you then you tell them they are not believers and make comments like you said to Stones

Thank God that we are "not of this world".
The enemy, sin, has been conquered.
Long live the King!

And your religion denies these things to be so.

[/QUOTE]

With regards to having a good conscience towards God I know a lot of non believers who want the same.
Most say to me “I hope my good works outweigh my bad works”
A good conscience is irrelevant. The Pharisees thought there conscience was good and perfect.
What did Jesus speak of them?

With regards to baptism let’s leave it there cause it seems you believe in baptismal regeneration.

 

[PJW]

I can't "condemn" anybody.
If they are shown that committing sin is not of God, they will have a chance to turn from them.
To allow them to feel comfortable in their ignorance would not be loving.

Insinuate?
It is written..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
It is written in 1 John 5:8..."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
They are all one.

Luke 17:3-4New International Version (NIV)
3 So watch yourselves.
“If your brother or sister[a] sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
Initial repentance is what you are talking about PJW but you must remember that we are a people that love to sin and therefore must repent on a regular basis

If I turn away from something, I'm not going to unrepent. (2 Cor 7:10)
The "me" that loved to sin was killed on the cross with Christ. (Rom 6:6)
It was replaced by a new creature that is of God's seed.
It cannot bring forth evil fruit.

 

[kennethleehutch]

If I turn away from something, I'm not going to unrepent. (2 Cor 7:10)
The "me" that loved to sin was killed on the cross with Christ. (Rom 6:6)
It was replaced by a new creature that is of God's seed.
It cannot bring forth evil fruit.

[h=1]Romans 6:6New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin—

Romans 6:6 says that we should no longer sin, it does not say that we will no longer sin. As long as you are a living breathing human being you are nothing but a sinner needing redemption and forgiveness daily. Don't think to highly of yourself PJW.[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

I agree with your 1st sentence I You or anyone else cannot condemn anyone. Jesus is the ultimate judge.
Every genuine beliver knows that committing sin is not of God, which is why they come before God and confess is and ask for help.
You are also right that if someone is not walking according to God’s way it would only be loving to correct them
But can you not see it, you do come across as condemning and not loving.
If people do not agree with you then you tell them they are not believers and make comments like you said to Stones

You think I can get folks to come to repentance with honey.

After about five posts on this thread, it became a street fight.
I tend to reply in kind, so I will make an effort to wait a little while before responding, henceforth.
Thanks for your opinion.

With regards to having a good conscience towards God I know a lot of non believers who want the same.
Most say to me “I hope my good works outweigh my bad works”

That is a perfect time to illustrate what they can do with the power of God in their life.
That kind of life is different than what they are used to.

A good conscience is irrelevant. The Pharisees thought there conscience was good and perfect.
What did Jesus speak of them?

I don't agree.
They are like the OSAS folks who trust on their constant repentances, (days of atonement for sin, to the Jews) to tide them over till the next repentance.
I suppose they think it is impossible for them to die before the new repentance is,,,"finalized"?

With regards to baptism let’s leave it there cause it seems you believe in baptismal regeneration.

It worked for me.
Thanks be to God!

 

[PJW]

Romans 6:6New International Version (NIV)

6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin—

Romans 6:6 says that we should no longer sin, it does not say that we will no longer sin. As long as you are a living breathing human being you are nothing but a sinner needing redemption and forgiveness daily. Don't think too highly of yourself PJW.

What does verse 7 say?

 

[BillG]

Good questions...
I do claim with assurance that I am in Christ.
I am sealed by the holy Spirit of God. (The seal of the inheritance)
I cannot break the seal of God.
He will keep His promise.
The seal of the inheritance is a "down payment, for something yet to come.
But I can always walk away from the faith, (God forbid), manifesting that my repentance was a lie, that I loved something above God: and I know you can't have a relationship with God that is based on a lie.
Salvation will not be accorded to idolaters.

Sorry i I am confused.

”I cannot break the seal of God, he will keep his promise”

”But I can always walk away from the faith (God forbid) and that my repentance was a lie.

Surely then you are saying that we can break that seal.

Given your belief that you never commit sins.

Lets say that you walk 30 years and do not commit one sin but then one day you do, you believe that you were actually never saved to begin with because you committed one sin. That’s it, no way back (as you believe).

If that is the case then you can break the seal.
Or do you not believe that you are sealed by the Holy Spirit until you die, just in case you committ 1 sin after salvation.
If so To me that doesn’t make sense because why would God give us the Holy Spirit as a down payment.
Yet you missed something out

Ephesians 1:13-14


13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

You missed the emboldened above.

I guess you may come back with “I will never sin so the Holy Spirit is my seal”
If so Peter and the others said the same

Matthew 26:35


35 Peter said to Him, “Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You!”
And so said all the disciples.

You say that after placing faith in Jesus and being baptised you never sin.

You have referenced in a post concerning the adulteress woman that when Jesus told her to sin no more then that meant never sin again. You discarded the fact that someone said Jesus was talking about her adulteress life.

The disciples placed their faith in Jesus then let him down big time.
Peter denied him 3 times.


Yet we find Jesus restoring all of them with love and compassion.

To be fair some of what I have said is based on my assumptions of what you say.

You will never sin, a genuine believer will never sin, if they do they were never a believer to start with, even if they comitt one sin after placing their faith in Jesus. And as a result there is now way back.

Correct me if I am wrong.

But I do have to say you seem to have contradicted yourself above.
But I suppose only those of us who acknowledge we sin are the only ones who see this.

 

[BillG]

You think I can get folks to come to repentance with honey.

After about five posts on this thread, it became a street fight.
I tend to reply in kind, so I will make an effort to wait a little while before responding, henceforth.
Thanks for your opinion.

I think firstly I would say that you, me and others do not bring people to repentance.
The Holy Spirit does that.
It is he that convicts the world of its sin.
And Jesus said that sin is unbelief in him.

We don’t offer honey, we offer love, Agape love.

You say after about 5 posts on this thread it became a street fight.
Have you wandered why?

Can I ask you with your honest evaluation as to why this is?

You say “That is a perfect is a perfect time to illustrate what they can do with the power of God in their life and that kind of life that is different from what they are used to”

So given that when you have led people to Jesus do you add a caveat?

Something along the lines of “Now you have come to Jesus don’t sin, if you do then you are not saved and if you do there is no way back?

But given that you believe that sins are not forgiven before baptism is it if they sin before baptism it’s forgiven and after that they can’t and won’t be forgiven?

There is a period of time between faith and baptism.

 

[BillG]

If I turn away from something, I'm not going to unrepent. (2 Cor 7:10)
The "me" that loved to sin was killed on the cross with Christ. (Rom 6:6)
It was replaced by a new creature that is of God's seed.
It cannot bring forth evil fruit.

To me to unrepent is unrepent of by belief in Jesus and totally reject it.
The me that loved to sin has also been nailed to the cross with Jesus.
But also the me that hates it when I do sin.
To me that’s my new nature, or creature as you put it.

Whats evil fruit?

 

[kennethleehutch]

That was not posted by me but somehow got attached to my post.

 

[Magenta]

Good questions...
I do claim with assurance that I am in Christ.
I am sealed by the holy Spirit of God. (The seal of the inheritance)
I cannot break the seal of God.
He will keep His promise.
The seal of the inheritance is a "down payment, for something yet to come.
But I can always walk away from the faith, (God forbid), manifesting that my repentance was a lie, that I loved something above God: and I know you can't have a relationship with God that is based on a lie.
Salvation will not be accorded to idolaters.

If you cannot break the seal, and He will keep His promise, wherein enters the possibility of walking away? The two are mutually exclusive. One either believes truly, or simply gives lip service, and does not believe, being religious but lost. The religious but lost often walk way.

 

[BillG]

That was not posted by me but somehow got attached to my post.

I know it wasn’t

If I turn away from something, I'm not going to unrepent. (2 Cor 7:10)
The "me" that loved to sin was killed on the cross with Christ. (Rom 6:6)
It was replaced by a new creature that is of God's seed.
It cannot bring forth evil fruit.

It was posted by PJW.

We had this today when I responded to VCO post and in fact it was a post by PJW.

I have no idea why it shows as your post.

But for some reason it does.
So I back you up and just so everyone knows kennethleehutch did not post the post I responded to.

The mods need to look at this as it’s the third/fourth time at least.

It does seem there is a glitch somewhere and I dont think PJW is being malicious.
Actually I am convinced he is not.

I responded to a post he made my post 43132 which you liked. Then I responded to another post my post being 43134 which has now been attribute to you.

It must be a glitch and as said I believe PJW is not to blame here.

Its a glitch in the matrix

 

[posthuman]

John the baptist:

for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He shall never take wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother's womb.
(Luke 1:15) ​

filled with the Holy Spirit from the womb

so how, why . .

And having summoned a certain two his disciples, John sent them to the Lord saying, "Are You the coming One, or are we to look for another?"
(Luke 7:19)
​

filled with the Spirit, yet able to commit the sin of doubt?

 

[stonesoffire]

Your post said you were banned, so what else was I to think?

After I left. I said I left, and was banned. I could of explained it better, so lets let it go.

I didn't know there was a ban until I tried to go in again. Then it said banned.

I left because of Dot and her friend 501; they were ganging up on everyone.

 

[posthuman]

I responded to a post he made my post 43132 which you liked. Then I responded to another post my post being 43134 which has now been attribute to you.

It must be a glitch and as said I believe PJW is not to blame here.

Its a glitch in the matrix

it's just you guys deleting some of the text when you quote, but either not deleting all the quote tags, or accidentally deleting an [/quote] that you shouldn't have, like this -

((some text))

notice that the "QUOTE=Bill" tag is sitting there, unused. that's the clue about what happened.

if i put two end-quote tags, it will show Bill quoting Kenneth quoting something, like this:

((some text))

it's not a conspiracy or a broken forum. it's just accidentally including or excluding some of the formatting commands.
use the 'preview post' utility from the advanced posting menu to see if what you're going to quote will show up right, and if not, add or remove /QUOTE] tags or

tags as you need to.