Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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let us Trust, wholly in HIM = a stretch that you can never deny!!!
bought and paid for;;;!!!
bought and paid for;;;!!!
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At what point is a person saved? God knew before time began.
Now, you may say, when they believe, but it can be a protracted
process for some, presenting no exact moment of surety of surrender,
just an assurance that it has finally happened, accompanied by an
immense hunger and thirst for the Truth of God's Eternal Word.
P
PHart
Guest
So remain a true believer so you won't get snatched out.True believers are in His hands and cannot be snatched out.
That is what we have been saying all along
That's what I've been saying all along.
The Bible tells us to keep believing in order to stay in Christ.
True believers are in His hands and cannot be snatched out.
That is what we have been saying all along
Because a true believer is believing and trusting Him.
My disconnect comes when someone seems to be saying continued trust/abiding is not necessary.
Some men say we have to continue, to abide in Him, and they see His faithfulness all the time to keep them by the struggles of growing faith He brings them to. They look back and see how faithful He has been to them and to His promises. And to say it is necessary to keep abiding does not fill them with fear. Instead, they grow more and more in trust of all He has said. So they abide more and more.
To then say to those men that they are trying to earn their salvation is a mistake, in my opinion. Anything that grows your trust is not a mistake.
They cannot be compared to a man who preaches works to be saved, or Sabbath keeping outwardly. That's not where their heart is.
Ok stay with me limey...and I am not picking a fight...so stay with me....
The Bible is the living word, right? The Bible speaks to us, right? we renew our minds to the word , right?
You contradict yourself by saying if you are in His hands you cannot be snatched out unless you fall out of His hands which He will not let happen
Yes that is a bit of a paraphrase but it is what it seems you have been presenting...
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PHart
Guest
You contradict yourself by saying if you are in His hands you cannot be snatched out unless you fall out of His hands which He will not let happen
I think confusion continues because you are thinking in terms of Him only holding you....Abiding is not one sided....it takes 2 to abide...if you think you have no part in the abiding then this might be the issue..
If you do not want to hold someones hand anymore, you stop holding the hand.....Not one verse in the Bible says that God has an obligation to hold you against your choice....
There are more IF & DO conditions in the New testament than people really like to admit....
I was specifically talking about the book itself, not the words of the book. I was being a little pedantic and not really thinking things through, sorry man.
P
PHart
Guest
The power of God that keeps us until the Day of Salvation is secured through faith (1 Peter 1:5). You do not have the power of God for the Day of Salvation if you do not have faith. He keeps us when we keep believing. Our believing obligates him to keep us. But without faith he has no obligation to keep us.You contradict yourself by saying if you are in His hands you cannot be snatched out unless you fall out of His hands which He will not let happen
Are you meaning the signs follow the preaching of truth? Your phrasing seems just slightly off.
Don't you think though that all of those conditions all boil down to the one - abide/trust/continue in trust?
Faith is rooted. The smallest of seeds goes down deep, and grows up into a strong bush. It's impossible to stamp it out. Read about this seed.
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Do you believe that Him abiding in us, and us in Him can be reversed?
While I agree that we tend to look at things as we believe they pertain to us, but the reason they do pertain to us is becuase we are true believers indwelled by the Holy Spirit.