Not By Works

[Rosemaryx]

Hi all...I have been thinking to myself that as i am not so grown in the Word yet, i am not going to watch videos of certain preachers because when i looked on line, i found people say certain names are preaching a false gospel, so i have decided that that only true way to grow is by listening to my Lord speak to me from His leading, and that is my faithful Bible...I am not grown enough to know when false things are being said , and what i do know is it is dangerous for me to follow such things...I like being in here because it`s hard core to me , many posters post with Scripture so i can read a long and check things out for myself...Maybe i should of posted this in an other thread, but seeing this is the place where alot of videos get posted, i put it here...Most of you in here are wonderful people in knowledge of the word, i have learned so much and hope i can be well read one day, but for now, i am sticking with my Bible and let the Lord lead me...xox...

 

[JIMBO43]

I want to repeat my questions due to the thread moving so fast:

How much do you have to sin to lose your salvation? Would be nice to have some specifics on such an important issue. How do you know that you've lost it? Can you get it back?

And one more question, how do you deal with Jesus saying that He will not lose any of those whom the Father gives Him, but shall raise them up on the last day? I would say it is impossible to interpret this verse in any other way than eternal security.

you wont get an answer to this coz you cant lose it until christ returns.... you can know that your saved through prayer and spiritual awareness... but as for knowing youve lost your salvation that doesnt get decided until christ returns...

so the bottom line is you cant possibly know..

 

[loveme1]

Some questions posed can not be answered by any us here... but this came to mind:

how much sin sin before salvation lost?

1 John 2

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[Meggido]

How much do you have to sin to lose your salvation?

How much do you have to backslide to keep salvation?

 

[loveme1]

Eternal security? We know He is Faithful... we are to hold fast.



Hebrews 10

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternal security? We know He is Faithful... we are to hold fast.



Hebrews 10

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

If salvation depends on us, we are lost,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some questions posed can not be answered by any us here... but this came to mind:

how much sin sin before salvation lost?

1 John 2

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Actually we can answer.

1 sin, that's all it takes,

as james said, if we break the least of all commands, we are judged guilty by the whole law. Or as Paul says, the penalty of sin (any sin) is death.

That us why grace and the cross are our only hope as Paul also said the solution, the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our lord.

 

[loveme1]

John 6

5And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day




We are to believe on Him and Keep His Word... If you are His then you will not be lost... but believe unto the saving of your soul.


Some will say lord on that day but he will say depart from me I never knew you.... were they His or did they not believe? The Lord knows.

 

[stonesoffire]

so its ok for him and others who agree with him but not anyone else?

As I said...it's his baby.

 

[Bogadile]

Some questions posed can not be answered by any us here... but this came to mind:

how much sin sin before salvation lost?

1 John 2

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

You are the Sabbath advocate, so I must ask, does "if we keep his commandments" include the Sabbath? Because if it does, then we got ourselves a problem because Christians do not "keep the sabbath".

So, is salvation by a week day or the person Jesus Christ?

 

[loveme1]

Actually we can answer.

1 sin, that's all it takes,

as james said, if we break the least of all commands, we are judged guilty by the whole law. Or as Paul says, the penalty of sin (any sin) is death.

That us why grace and the cross are our only hope as Paul also said the solution, the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our lord.

You would be guilty of all.. James teaches indeed... the law of liberty... you can not judge the Lord's people for Him. He will have mercy.. and you or I become not the judge..

John said if we sin we have an advocate.. we are under grace eg... sin will not have dominion of us... we not under the law.

 

[stonesoffire]

I'll address this a little more fully brother. I hope there isn't much disagreement saying that Noah's Ark was a "type" of Christ. Or at least an attribute of Him.

Genesis 6:14 Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it INSIDE and outside with pitch.

The idea of the pitch (tar) on the outside is obviously to keep OUT the judgement of God on unrepentant sinners.

Now some commentators believe the purpose of the pitch on the inside is to preserve the Ark through millenia as a sign in the last days, and this may be true.

But if we look at the similitude, the pitch could be a modeling of the Holy Spirit sealing the inside for the saved. Remember WHO it was that closed the Ark door before the 1st drop. Now obviously Noah could have jumped out the window to joyfully embrace God's judgement! lol

So this "sealing" is a very important concept. Not to argue the eternal security point with you. I know where you stand on it, and although I wish you saw things my way, you trust in Christ, who He is, and what He has done, just like me. Therefore you are my brother and I love you.

Ephesians 1:13New King James Version (NKJV)

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,


2 Corinthians 1:21-22New King James Version (NKJV)

21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Now John tells us a little about seals in Revelation:


Revelation 5New King James Version (NKJV)

The Lamb Takes the Scroll

5 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.
4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read[a]the scroll, or to look at it. 5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose[b] its seven seals.”
6 And I looked, and behold,[c] in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.
Worthy Is the Lamb

8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us[d] kings[e] and priests to our God;
And we[f] shall reign on the earth.”

So I'm confused as to how someone is going to break the seal only Jesus can open?


ALL of this DOES NOT make me want to go out and sin more! Quite the contrary. I'm so blown away by His Mercy and Grace, that I hate to disappoint Him because I'm so grateful to Him. Consequently I WANT to please Him more knowing I am secure in Him.

I hope this scratches where your'e itchin brother! Be Blessed

Hi PennEd

What is sealed in this scripture is the bible. The revelation of Himself. And Jesus gives us revelation truth as we search. If you look at the greek, you will see the word biblios. I don't think you can apply this to being sealed in our spirit.

 

[loveme1]

You are the Sabbath advocate, so I must ask, does "if we keep his commandments" include the Sabbath? Because if it does, then we got ourselves a problem because Christians do not "keep the sabbath".

So, is salvation by a week day or the person Jesus Christ?

A Sabbath advocate or a servant believing what her Master taught?


I have the New wine in my bottle by the Grace of GOD.

Christians Keep the Commandments of GOD... the saints Keep the Commandments and have the Testimony of the Messiah.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John 6

5And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day




We are to believe on Him and Keep His Word... If you are His then you will not be lost... but believe unto the saving of your soul.


Some will say lord on that day but he will say depart from me I never knew you.... were they His or did they not believe? The Lord knows.

the context of john 6 is eating food which endures to eternal life, vs seeking food which will die,

it means those who trust in God and put their life in his hands, he will give them this food which lasts forever, the promises he made are real, it is eternal security 101.

the ones who jess says depart are those who trY to come to him by thei works, not the on s who asked for the food which endures forever?

 

[loveme1]

If salvation depends on us, we are lost,

Oh indeed.. without the Messiah we are condemned... we are lost... but GOD be thanked that we have the New Covenant.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hi all...I believe when we KNOW who we are in Christ, once that has truly sunk in, then the rest of our journey is growing in Him, knowing we are loved and one with Him who gave His life for us...When i was looking at certain Scriptures a few weeks ago that are posted in here about we can lose our Salvation, i started growing in fear, to me that said i had taken my eyes of Jesus...At this moment in my life with Christ, i have no reason to fear them warnings because Jesus has assured me that i can not be snatched, do some people worry about losing their Salvation because they are not secure in Him, that`s how i was untill He showed me that`s not true...I would not want to live all my days that God gives me wondering about that because Jesus said we have an abundance in Him, He wants us to grow in Him,,,I know the warnings are there for people who do walk away from Gods grace, people do become ship wrecked, but if you are walking on the narrow path then why worry about such things, they can become obsessive thoughts, and that is not walking in the Holy Spirit...xox...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You would be guilty of all.. James teaches indeed... the law of liberty... you can not judge the Lord's people for Him. He will have mercy.. and you or I become not the judge..

John said if we sin we have an advocate.. we are under grace eg... sin will not have dominion of us... we not under the law.

Think about this,

we are not under law, which means we have eternal security, because the law can not condemn us. Because Christ is always our advocate,

it is the accuser user who accuses,

 

[UnderGrace]

I will do some research on the high profile adherents and get back to you.

Well, a cursory glance at that and their doctrine is the norm. But that said there is nothing there about the walk of the believer post conversion, so what you were looking for wasn't even addressed.

That said, there is nothing to conclude and say :they don't teach that." But this isn't Grace Evangelical Societies take either, and its take is different.

 

[stonesoffire]

I chose the truth that leads to perhaps owning it and growing up.

ah, I see..there's a third way.

 

[stonesoffire]

lol.. If it was snot a work IPAD and I needed it to do all my work, including clock in and out, I would!!

Not sure if you know this...lol But there is often an s on your not. and I either laugh or get sick.

tee hee...