Not By Works

[Desertsrose]

Hi Magenta!I'd love give you my thoughts, but I am not sure I understand your question?But, my first thoughts are in John 16:7Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.8And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:9concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;Unbelievers are judged for not believing in Christ. Paul also says they are without excuse because all of creation expresses the existence of our Creator, but even if they say they have no law to follow, their actions show the law is written on their heart. And so they are left without excuse.Did I answer your question? P.S. Nice to see you again.

Hi Cee,


My question would be:


Romans 1 talks about all mankind so Jew and Gentle are covered......all men are without excuse


Verse 28-32 says this:


And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.


Here it says that they all know the ordinance of God, they know that because of going against the law and their works of unrighteousness, they know they are worthy of death.......they even try to bring others to their level of depravity, clapping their hands with hearty approval.

 

[Magenta]

Hi Magenta!

I'd love give you my thoughts, but I am not sure I understand your question?

But, my first thoughts are in John 16:

7Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.8And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:9concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;

Unbelievers are judged for not believing in Christ. Paul also says they are without excuse because all of creation expresses the existence of our Creator, but even if they say they have no law to follow, their actions show the law is written on their heart. And so they are left without excuse.

Did I answer your question? P.S. Nice to see you again.

The law is written in their hearts and they go against it anyway in rebellion (the pride of life is so ubiquitous!) so is it not that same law that ultimately condemns them? It is true Jesus paid the price for the sins of the world, but if His gift is rejected, those who do so are left outside of grace (no condemnation) and are condemned by what standard? I would think it to be the law, is what I was getting at. They are judged by their deeds according to the measurement of the law... yes? No?

Thank you, Cee, always nice to see you also!

 

[LoveGodForever]

I had to come to the same conclusion.
Same words different meanings.
Different meanings same words.
On occasion same words same meaning...but in the end a works based non-gospel

So UG tell me, what am I saying that is a works based Gospel?

 

[UnderGrace]

So UG tell me, what am I saying that is a works based Gospel?

Yes the Gospel is all those things you mentioned and more. The Gospel meaning is literally "Good News" the good news is Jesus! (John 3:16) And Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1-4). The Word of God is the Gospel and we are to live by every Word of it (Matt 4:4) Life comes by faith and living in God's Words! Our part is having the Faith in God Word to save us from our sins and to walk with him. Our salvation comes from Jesus our Saviour

we are to live by every Word of it

Reads like work to me!

 

[LoveGodForever]

Reads like work to me!

Jesus says it not me friend

Mat 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Context is Faith....

 

[Cee]

Our righteousness in Christ:

Romans 10:2

For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Self-righteousness without Christ:

Romans 3:
9What then? Are we Jews[SUP]a[/SUP] any better off?[SUP]b[/SUP] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10as it is written:“None is righteous, no, not one;
11no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13“Their throat is an open grave; - (speaking death)
they use their tongues to deceive.” - (lying)
“The venom of asps is under their lips.” (maybe the tongue?)
14“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (out of the heart)
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood; (murders / hating each other)
16in their paths are ruin and misery,
17and the way of peace they have not known.”
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (no respect of God)
19Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20For by works of the law no human being[SUP]c[/SUP] will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

From these Scriptures I would say that the law produced knowledge of sin. And all are under sin. All under sin are judged by the law. However, those in Christ are not judged by the law. But are redeemed by Him who is the Justifier through faith in Jesus.

 

[UnderGrace]

Do as you believe, but the right context is what matters, and if that context is not from the necessary, sufficient,

finished work of the cross with nothing left to add, except to believe to in it, then it is NO context at all.

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest."

Matthew 11:28

Jesus says it not me friend

Mat 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Context is Faith....

 

[LoveGodForever]

Our righteousness in Christ:

Romans 10:2

For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Self-righteousness without Christ:

Romans 3:
9What then? Are we Jews[SUP]a[/SUP] any better off?[SUP]b[/SUP] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10as it is written:“None is righteous, no, not one;
11no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13“Their throat is an open grave; - (speaking death)
they use their tongues to deceive.” - (lying)
“The venom of asps is under their lips.” (maybe the tongue?)
14“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (out of the heart)
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood; (murders / hating each other)
16in their paths are ruin and misery,
17and the way of peace they have not known.”
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (no respect of God)
19Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20For by works of the law no human being[SUP]c[/SUP] will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

From these Scriptures I would say that the law produced knowledge of sin. And all are under sin. All under sin are judged by the law. However, those in Christ are not judged by the law. But are redeemed by Him who is the Justifier through faith in Jesus.

Absolutely, The short version below....

Gal 3:24-25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (we are under faith in God's Word).

1Jo 2:24-25,
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

Joh 8:31-34,
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

God bless

 

[LoveGodForever]

Do as you believe, but the right context is what matters, and if that context is not from the necessary, sufficient,
finished work of the cross with nothing left to add, except to believe to in it, then it is NO context at all.
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest."
Matthew 11:28

Hi UG, so what have I taken out of context?

 

[Grace777x70]

It is important to listen to the "now" word of God. We can take an Old Covenant scripture and try to "apply it" in the New Covenant and as Jesus said we end up ruining both. He gave us the example of new wine in old wine skins.

Take the popular scripture in Matt. 4:4 "Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

The Greek word here for "word" is rhema - which is the spoken revealed word of God to us at the time.

When Jesus used this "rhema word" in Matt. 4:4 - He spoke it to the devil who said to Him - "If you are the Son of God...."

Notice that the devil left out what the Father had said to Jesus after He came out of the water. "This is My beloved Son." The enemy doesn't want us to be established in God's love for us.

The "now" word for Jesus was "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased". Jesus lived from that word from the Father and didn't need to "prove" it to the devil. Jesus' life came from what the Father said and believed about Him ( So, we too live by this very same principle )

God in the Old testament spoke to us in many ways but has "now" in these last days spoken to us through His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself is the "now" word.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,

[SUP]2[/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

I can guarantee that Isaac was happy that his dad - Abraham listened to the "now" word of God when he was laying on that altar. Some people would have killed Isaac because God said to do it.

They would say things like "God is the same today, yesterday and forever". We must "do" every word that proceeds from God and thus totally miss the "now" word of God.

These are those that try to live by the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments which are a goner and yet totally miss the "now" word of God as revealed in the finished work of Christ.

They are still trying to "do the word of God" from the Old Testament when now we live by the life of Christ in the New Covenant.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

The life of the new creation in Christ "now" is to "behold" what these new things are and when we behold Christ Himself - we will see Him for who He actually is and we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

This is one of the dynamics of the ways of God for transformation while we are in these flesh bodies.

This is why the things of the Old Testament are mere shadows of the reality which is Christ Himself. All scripture speaks of Him and His work on the cross and resurrection and of the true love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for us "now".

 

[PHart]

Lol, i've been to those places and all there was was grace. Like a beacon of light to lead me back to truth.

Have you blasphemed the Spirit?
Have you fallen away from the enlightenment of the Spirit?
Have you taken the mark of the beast?
Have you willfully gone back to your old life of sin and unbelief?

The Bible says grace can not reach the person who goes to these places. There is no way back to God for the person who goes to these places. There is no "beacon of light to lead me back to the truth" for the person who commits the sins listed above.

You can't bend grace, what does that even mean.

You can't make grace reach a place that God has made clear it can not and will not go. You're deceiving yourself if you think grace goes where God himself says it will not go.

 

[PHart]

It is important to listen to the "now" word of God. We can take an Old Covenant scripture and try to "apply it" in the New Covenant and as Jesus said we end up ruining both. He gave us the example of new wine in old wine skins.

Take the popular scripture in Matt. 4:4 "Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

The Greek word here for "word" is rhema - which is the spoken revealed word of God to us at the time.

When Jesus used this "rhema word" in Matt. 4:4 - He spoke it to the devil who said to Him - "If you are the Son of God...."

Notice that the devil left out what the Father had said to Jesus after He came out of the water. "This is My beloved Son." The enemy doesn't want us to be established in God's love for us.

The "now" word for Jesus was "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased". Jesus lived from that word from the Father and didn't need to "prove" it to the devil. Jesus' life came from what the Father said and believed about Him ( So, we too live by this very same principle )

God in the Old testament spoke to us in many ways but has "now" in these last days spoken to us through His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself is the "now" word.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,

[SUP]2[/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

I can guarantee that Isaac was happy that his dad - Abraham listened to the "now" word of God when he was laying on that altar. Some people would have killed Isaac because God said to do it.

They would say things like "God is the same today, yesterday and forever". We must "do" every word that proceeds from God and thus totally miss the "now" word of God.

These are those that try to live by the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments which are a goner and yet totally miss the "now" word of God as revealed in the finished work of Christ.

They are still trying to "do the word of God" from the Old Testament when now we live by the life of Christ in the New Covenant.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

The life of the new creation in Christ "now" is to "behold" what these new things are and when we behold Christ Himself - we will see Him for who He actually is and we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

This is one of the dynamics of the ways of God for transformation while we are in these flesh bodies.

This is why the things of the Old Testament are mere shadows of the reality which is Christ Himself. All scripture speaks of Him and His work on the cross and resurrection and of the true love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for us "now".

The huge mistake the church makes is to automatically and categorically make any and all law keeping equivalent to trying to be made righteous (justified) by the law.

If it was true that any and all attempts to keep the law of Moses automatically condemned you as trying to justify yourself by your works then Paul himself was most certainly condemned, for he is recorded in the book of Acts as observing the law of Moses. He proves that you are not automatically condemning yourself for choosing to observe various things in the law. The reason you are keeping the law determines whether or not your law keeping condemns you. The church does not know this.

Some Christians choose to observe the literal Sabbath or a Festival for the same reason the rest of us don't murder, or steal. The church seems to only be capable of understanding works as 'trying to justify yourself' and seem oblivious to the fact that Christians can in fact keep a law of God because they love him and want to please him. And that's certainly not a reason for keeping the law that condemns a person.

Few in the church know that it is actually the early Catholic church that outlawed the law and made it a crime to keep the law for any reason whatsoever. God is not the one who indoctrinated us against law keeping by saying any and all law keeping is the attempt to justify oneself. The Catholic church is responsible for that indoctrination. It's interesting to see Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath when the truth is the Catholics are the ones who changed the law and made Sunday the new Sabbath.

Don't get me wrong. I personally am convinced that Christians do not HAVE to keep the ceremonial law of Moses as we have to keep the law of murder and theft, for example. But to insist that no one can keep the ceremonial laws because that automatically means you're trying to justify yourself is just plain misguided at best, down right judgmental at worse. Who are we to judge the heart and intent and motivations of someone who keeps the law because he loves God, and not in order to be justified?

 

[Grace777x70]

The huge mistake the church makes is to automatically and categorically make any and all law keeping equivalent to trying to be made righteous (justified) by the law.

If it was true that any and all attempts to keep the law of Moses automatically condemned you as trying to justify yourself by your works then Paul himself was most certainly condemned, for he is recorded in the book of Acts as observing the law of Moses. He proves that you are not automatically condemning yourself for choosing to observe various things in the law. The reason you are keeping the law determines whether or not your law keeping condemns you. The church does not know this.

Some Christians choose to observe the literal Sabbath or a Festival for the same reason the rest of us don't murder, or steal. The church seems to only be capable of understanding works as 'trying to justify yourself' and seem oblivious to the fact that Christians can in fact keep a law of God because they love him and want to please him. And that's certainly not a reason for keeping the law that condemns a person.

Few in the church know that it is actually the early Catholic church that outlawed the law and made it a crime to keep the law for any reason whatsoever. God is not the one who indoctrinated us against law keeping by saying any and all law keeping is the attempt to justify oneself. The Catholic church is responsible for that indoctrination. It's interesting to see Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath when the truth is the Catholics are the ones who changed the law and made Sunday the new Sabbath.

Don't get me wrong. I personally am convinced that Christians do not HAVE to keep the ceremonial law of Moses as we have to keep the law of murder and theft, for example. But to insist that no one can keep the ceremonial laws because that automatically means you're trying to justify yourself is just plain misguided at best, down right judgmental at worse. Who are we to judge the heart and intent and motivations of someone who keeps the law because he loves God, and not in order to be justified?

Neither Saturday or Sunday is the real Sabbath. Everyday is the true Sabbath as it is Christ Himself. Everything in the Old Testament testifies of the real substance which is Christ Himself. He is the Everlasting Sabbath.

I understand what you are saying and I agree in principle but it is a carnal ( fleshly ) way of living the Christian life.

There is a much better way of the Lord in the New Covenant that is for us now in Christ. By living the true Christian life - the person has no affiliation to the law at all for we have died to it.

The law of love and of Christ Himself and the law of faith and the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how the true Christian life is lived now in the New Covenant. All of these which is Christ Himself living in and through us fulfills the whole intent of the law without "following it".

If they want to please Him - then we should walk as Jesus walked.

I love this verse below.

1 John 2:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6[/SUP] the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

How did Jesus walk? By complete dependence on the Father inside of Him to manifest His life. Jesus said that He could do nothing from His own initiative but it was the Father in Him doing the works.

This dependence brought forth the love and grace of God into all areas of life in the Lord Jesus Christ which reflected the true nature of the Father to this world.

We too live by complete dependence on the life of Christ inside of us with Him bearing His fruit on us the branches. Without Him we can do nothing. So, to walk as Jesus walk means to live dependent on Christ Himself inside of us living in and through us.

To be truly live unto God - we need to be dead to the law. Thank God we are dead to the law because we are in Christ now and the New Covenant is in place.

Galatians 2:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

True New Covenant Christian living is not trying to mimic Christ but it's Christ Himself living in and through us manifesting His life of grace and love to those that need to know His true nature, love and the superabounding grace for them.

 

[Zmouth]

2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

[video=youtube;fiJdfCiWo4I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiJdfCiWo4I[/video]

 

[LoveGodForever]

Neither Saturday or Sunday is the real Sabbath. Everyday is the true Sabbath as it is Christ Himself. Everything in the Old Testament testifies of the real substance which is Christ Himself. He is the Everlasting Sabbath.

Hi Grace777, than why are you following the traditions of man over the Word of God?

If you are correct in anything you have said please show us "one bible verse" from even one question that says...

Jesus is the Sabbath and we not longer need to keep the 7th Day Sabbath?

The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?


Ok time to rest. Good night all

 

[graceNpeace]

Hi Grace777, than why are you following the traditions of man over the Word of God?

If you are correct in anything you have said please show us "one bible verse" from even one question that says...

Jesus is the Sabbath and we not longer need to keep the 7th Day Sabbath?

The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?


Ok time to rest. Good night all

I think he needs to change his handle to "straw-man"...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then there is no New Covenant for you...

Heb 8:10-12,

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:5 and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

This is talking about a future event for the nation of Israel.

Not you or I or any gentile believer.

God has made many covenants, He has made quite a few new ones too. You just have to look at context.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Absolutely, who is not agreeing with that? But if you fall into sin again your back where you stated

What? Then we have never been saved to begin with. There is no middle ground, your not part saved, part lost, and if you sin you fall again, That is putting us back under law. And as paul said, if you want to go back to law. and even one part, you are indebted to follow ever part. and you better not mess up one time, Because the law will condemn you.

 

[Grace777x70]

I'll copy Magenta's post in the "Sabbath" thread that shows Jesus Himself is our true Sabbath rest for anyone interested and He is not a carnal ( fleshly ) keeping of any one day - either a Saturday or a Sunday.

Jesus is my Sabbath rest. He is with me every day
--------------------
The key to understanding how Jesus is our Sabbath rest is the Hebrew word sabat, which means "to rest or stop or cease from work." The origin of the Sabbath goes back to Creation. After creating the heavens and the earth in six days, God "rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made" (Genesis 2:2).

This doesn’t mean that God was tired and needed a rest. We know that God is omnipotent, literally "all-powerful." He has all the power in the universe, He never tires, and His most arduous expenditure of energy does not diminish His power one bit.

So, what does it mean that God rested on the seventh day? Simply that He stopped what He was doing. He ceased from His labors. This is important in understanding the establishment of the Sabbath day and the role of Christ as our Sabbath rest.

God used the example of His resting on the seventh day of Creation to establish the principle of the Sabbath day rest for His people. In Exodus 20:8-11 and Deuteronomy 5:12-15, God gave the Israelites the fourth of His Ten Commandments.

They were to "remember" the Sabbath day and "keep it holy." One day out of every seven, they were to rest from their labors and give the same day of rest to their servants and animals. This was not just a physical rest, but a cessation of laboring.

Whatever work they were engaged in was to stop for a full day each week. The Sabbath day was established so the people would rest from their labors, only to begin again after a one-day rest.

The various elements of the Sabbath symbolized the coming of the Messiah, who would provide a permanent rest for His people. Once again the example of resting from our labors comes into play.

With the establishment of the Old Testament Law, the Jews were constantly "laboring" to make themselves acceptable to God. Their labors included trying to obey a myriad of do’s and don’ts of the ceremonial law, the Temple law, the civil law, etc.

Of course they couldn’t possibly keep all those laws, so God provided an array of sin offerings and sacrifices so they could come to Him for forgiveness and restore fellowship with Him, but only temporarily.

Just as they began their physical labors after a one-day rest, so, too, did they have to continue to offer sacrifices. Hebrews 10:1 tells us that the law "can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship."

But these sacrifices were offered in anticipation of the ultimate sacrifice of Christ on the cross, who "after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right of God" (Hebrews 10:12).

Just as He rested after performing the ultimate sacrifice, He sat down and rested—ceased from His labor of atonement because there was nothing more to be done, ever. Because of what He did, we no longer have to "labor" in law-keeping in order to be justified in the sight of God.

Jesus was sent so that we might rest in God and in what He has provided.

Another element of the Sabbath day rest which God instituted as a foreshadowing of our complete rest in Christ is that He blessed it, sanctified it, and made it holy. Here again we see the symbol of Christ as our Sabbath rest—the holy, perfect Son of God who sanctifies and makes holy all who believe in Him.

God sanctified Christ, just as He sanctified the Sabbath day, and sent Him into the world (John 10:36) to be our sacrifice for sin.

In Him we find complete rest from the labors of our self-effort, because He alone is holy and righteous. "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21). We can now cease from our spiritual labors and rest in Him, not just one day a week, but always.

Jesus can be our Sabbath rest in part because He is "Lord of the Sabbath" (Matthew 12:8). As God incarnate, He decides the true meaning of the Sabbath because He created it, and He is our Sabbath rest in the flesh.

When the Pharisees criticized Him for healing on the Sabbath, Jesus reminded them that even they, sinful as they were, would not hesitate to pull a sheep out of a pit on the Sabbath.

Because He came to seek and save His sheep who would hear His voice (John 10:3,27) and enter into the Sabbath rest He provided by paying for their sins, He could break the Sabbath rules. He told the Pharisees that people are more important than sheep and the salvation He provided was more important than rules.

By saying, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27), Jesus was restating the principle that the Sabbath rest was instituted to relieve man of his labors, just as He came to relieve us of our attempting to achieve salvation by our works.

We no longer rest for only one day, but forever cease our laboring to attain God’s favor. Jesus is our rest from works now, just as He is the door to heaven, where we will rest in Him forever.

Hebrews 4 is the definitive passage regarding Jesus as our Sabbath rest. The writer to the Hebrews exhorts his readers to “enter in” to the Sabbath rest provided by Christ.

After three chapters of telling them that Jesus is superior to the angels and that He is our Apostle and High Priest, he pleads with them to not harden their hearts against Him, as their fathers hardened their hearts against the Lord in the wilderness. Because of their unbelief, God denied that generation access to the holy land, saying, “They shall not enter into My rest” (Hebrews 3:11).

In the same way, the writer to the Hebrews begs his readers not to make the same mistake by rejecting God’s Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ.

“There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience” (Hebrews 4:9–11).

There is no other Sabbath rest besides Jesus. He alone satisfies the requirements of the Law, and He alone provides the sacrifice that atones for sin. He is God’s plan for us to cease from the labor of our own works. We dare not reject this one-and-only Way of salvation (John 14:6).

God’s reaction to those who choose to reject His plan is seen in Numbers 15. A man was found gathering sticks on the Sabbath day, in spite of God’s plain commandment to cease from all labor on the Sabbath.

This transgression was a known and willful sin, done with unblushing boldness in broad daylight, in open defiance of the divine authority. “Then the LORD said to Moses, ‘The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp’” (verse 35). So it will be to all who reject God’s provision for our Sabbath rest in Christ. “How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?” (Hebrews 2:3).

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Sabbath.html


Here is the original which says it all.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/149862-sabbath-98.html#post3198873

 

[PHart]

...if you want to go back to law. and even one part, you are indebted to follow ever part. and you better not mess up one time, Because the law will condemn you.

In this context 'going back to the law' means trying to be justified by the law. Paul made it clear that the issue was in regard to trying to be justified by the law, not simply keeping the law.

Galatians 5:4 NASB
...you who are seeking to be justified by law...

'Going back to the law' does not mean choosing to honor and worship God, whom you love, by observing a Sabbath, or a Festival. It would be terribly hypocritical of Paul to chastise the Galatians for simply wanting to observe the law since he himself observed the law. The point of contention with the Galatians is they were trying to be justified by observance of the law. That's the no-no.