Not By Works

[oldethennew]

just a share:

after our conversion, 'hub and myself', we were led by The Holy Spirit to go to certain people
that we had been accountable to/owed, in several ways, and we had put them behind
an emotional 'lock/block, and turned the key' - well, we were 'commanded' to make amends to several,
not all, of course for various reasons, but this was one of the most 'liberating/freeing' realities
that we had ever experienced, for we knew that this could only happen by
God's grace and conviction...

 

[dcontroversal]

Being sorry to God for our sins does not gain us salvation?

You do have God in a really tiny box.

But have no fear, He will not stay there...

Nothing but but clichés and slogans...........

 

[FranC]

Yes, the babies have no works, but they also don't have intent

What you're really referring to is the "age of accountability".

until this age children are considered to be affected by original sin (Adam) but they are not responsible for it's effects (the sin nature).

God does not count as sin to you something that you do not know is sin.
He is truly JUST. Not like our justice system that states "ignorance is no excuse under the law". How could this be?
Am I required to know every law on the books?

Our God is loving and merciful. We are only responsible for the sins we know we have committed.
Children, as I've stated in other posts, do not know about sin until a certain age.

The age differs for each child. About 14 would be a good guess.

 

[oldethennew]

Ariel and DC,

TY both for understanding where we are coming from on this subject,
we are very appreciative of your discernment -

JAMES 5:16.
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed.
The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

 

[Meggido]

===================================================================

oh yes, his flesh would have been definately been 'destroyed' had he not 'REPENTED'...
we all must learn that when we do sin, we do have our 'Intercessor', Jesus Christ',
whom is sitting right beside God on the THRONE,- 'If we confess our sins',
'He is Faithful and Just to 'forgive' us our transgressions'...

it's all about our Saviour's Love and Sacrifice for us all...
this is our Saviour's JOB, this is what He DOES for US, as we have need of Him,

as it is written: 'For if, when we were 'enemies', we were reconciled to God by the death
of His Son, much more, being 'reconciled', we 'shall' be 'saved-by-His-Life'.

I do not disagree, but in this case it was not and some people state it was....

 

[PeterJens]

Originally Posted by FranC

Funny.

I never read peter Jens call anyone a derogatory name.

Much as I hear from "your side".

Wonder why that is?
Wonder WHO is following the word of God?




He has called me every name in the book like - satanic, a lover of sinning, heretic, delusional, a hater of those that walk righteously, a hater of God's word and a hater of the words of Jesus....etc.

I asked him several times to stop this ungodly behavior but he kept at it - so unfortunately I had to put him on ignore and not interact with him anymore until there is repentance.

I think it so amusing that some of those that say we are to walk righteously and in purity of heart have some of the worse behavior I have ever witnessed among Christians. I don't see any difference between this sort of behavior and those Christians that say it's ok to live the homosexual lifestyle.

Funny this. G7 preaches heresy, the sermon on the mount is not for believers etc.
He pushes the main line HG preachers, WOF, health and wealth positions.
I have zero truck with this, and want no communications, because they are just
biased distortions of simple scripture and theology. My words have been far kinder
than they should have been.

And I have no time for people who are heretics like this. Jesus's words are eternal,
deny them and you do not know Jesus.

Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
2 John 1:11

In the world of spiritual authority, to defile yourself with heretics dishonours Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

Exhibit "A"

- the sky is still blue......

 

[PeterJens]

My summary of some is they are so lost in security in Christ they do not see the sin
and heresy flowing out from their words and position, it has become too ingrained with
the hatred and animosity they feel everytime they get angry.

The biggest joke is when loyalty trumps God, or holding a position moves beyond
knowledge or sense. If in a few sentences two different positions can be taken without
blinking you know it is all emotional positioning and nothing really to do with Christ.

A person who cannot walk away from Christ and stay sane is here under false pretences,
because they are totally compromised.
God is looking for people if God was evil they would walk away.

It is like judging my morality on my theology rather than how I treat you when we meet.
Love looks at the whole person, emotionally, physically and spiritually. If you cannot do
this you have not really begun to know God.

So a guy walks in saying they are a satanist. Now this is just a wind up, a way of provoking
a response, probably from people who judge by being polite before they know you. After you
have got to know them for real, the whys and hows, you can begin to see who you are dealing
with. I have seen this here, a few words, and people jump on an individual, dice them up,
judge them and reject them. Invariably they are wrong, and just cause more trouble than its
worth.

My family would say everyone spending time in this forum has serious issues, which is probably
true, but then some of us like playing with ideas and seeing where they lead, and if you can
handle the flack, you can learn a lot.

My core rule is if you listen to Jesus and His words, amen brother or sister, lets have fellowship.
Unfortunately it appears many do not qualify yet claim to know Jesus. I find this impossible to
believe, simply because Jesus was so specific about loyalty to Him above all else.

To date everyone who has failed this rule has turned out to have serious flaws in their life and in
their theology. So I trust Jesus over any of these guys any day. Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

On the point of positions.
False teachers are just ex-teachers and have no authority.

Foundations are everything. Conviction of sin and sorrow is the beginning of spiritual awakening.
Those that cannot support this do not know God.

The fact that on a christian forum this is even debated shows the level of apostacy that is present.
But getting real in Canada there are atheist churches where they all believe it is made up, but they
like the formal belonging, singing and ceremonies so they carry on. So I should not be surprised, lol.

 

[UnderGrace]

Again this is not about works and holding on.

The bible talks about different types of salvation, and a person needs to properly divide scripture to know what type of salvation is in view.

Verses 12, 14, and 17 explain that to “believe in vain” (1 Corinthians 15:2) is to believe to no purpose, to believe a gospel that is not true. It has nothing to do with not having “enough faith,” not having the “right kind of faith,” et cetera.


Paul is saying that if Jesus Christ did not resurrect, then it is pointless to believe the Gospel of the Grace of God that teaches that He was in fact raised again the third day (verse 4). By clarifying the matter of “believing in vain” of 1 Corinthians 15:2, the issue of “saved, if ye keep in memory” becomes astoundingly clearer, too.


I find these theological ploys invented by people because they do not understand how to handle the passage rather frustrating, and then always wanting to insert insecurity about salvation into a passage in such an affront to Gospel of the Grace of God and rather dishonest too!

Amen sister.

There are many IF's in the N.T.
Many just refuse to see them...

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 New International Version (NIV)

The Resurrection of Christ

15
1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.
2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

 

[willybob]

those of the the flesh, (those that submit to the lusts of the flesh), build strongholds keeping them in the bondage of sin. They abide NOT in the house forever. They are being destroyed by "them" (the powers of darkness, the tree cutters),

 

[UnderGrace]

OSAS is a doctrine from hell.

Do you realize how you have blasphemed against the Truth so clear in scripture!

One has to twist, turn, mangle, mutilate stretch scripture beyond all recognition to make your false dogma fit.

Jesus was very clear one has to be born again to have eternal life. We are born again in this life therefore we have eternal life starting in this life. Something cannot be eternal if it stops and starts...basic physics!

Listen to the difference EG:

OSAS is a doctrine from hell.

Now listen to this:

Peter, why don't you give your life to God?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

in the first instance, I'm judging my opinion about OSAS.
in the second instance, by your telling Peter go give his life to God, you are ASSUMING that he hasn't and thus is lost.


There's a difference EG.

 

[willybob]

the worst punishment in the text is to be a false teacher, for they themselves do not enter into God's house, but they also suffer the blood of those that they blocked from entering, thus suffer the greater damnation, Mathew 23..The apostle James said to be not many teachers because they (the false prophets) suffer the greater condemnation...its , but its bad enough to believe in the false gospel, but its even much worse to preach it to others....a warning to the easy grace crowd...

 

[dcontroversal]

the worst punishment in the text is to be a false teacher, for they themselves do not enter into God's house, but they also suffer the blood of those that they blocked from entering, thus suffer the greater damnation, Mathew 23..The apostle James said to be not many teachers because they (the false prophets) suffer the greater condemnation...its , but its bad enough to believe in the false gospel, but its even much worse to preach it to others....a warning to the easy grace crowd...

You should take your own advice Cain....oh I mean spongebob......

Faith plus works for salvation = false gospel.....good luck pal!

 

[Stephen63]

Wrong again

Readers out there need to know this. This needs to be exposed as error, otherwise people they will become entrapped in a system of works to keep salvation which on a day-to-day basis becomes a burden God never imposed on his children. This thread has meandered in so many different directions..... but let’s get James straight within the context of all scriptures that tell us that we are saved eternally.

Which by the way is the only way to understand the Bible!


Statements such as “if you have faith, you will have works” need to be put to eternal rest as in Die!!


This is a salvation-base, and works-based response to and application of James message.


He isn’t questioning the faith or salvation of his audience because of the absence of works; rather he is questioning

the absence of works ‘given’ their faith and salvation taken at face value.

He urging them not to have dead faith...dead meaning USELESS ... while these works are not to save us or even to prove we are saved they do help with our testimony (justify) before men.

Well, let's see..... we have a couple of hard core, verbally beat-you-in-the ground-types.....

We have some "let's be logical & common sense" types.....

We have a couple of "let's all love one another" types.....

We have both male & female "gentle as a kitten" types.....

We hav a few "I'm acting like I'm on the other side" losers who make them look good.....

Ooh, yeah..... we even have a couple of "referee" types, acting as if they're neutral when they're not.

All of these round out a complete group of various personality types & attitudes to draw all kinds of folk to the same side of easy believeism.

If you take a look at it, it looks like a scripted act with all the right players.

Then again, it could be a handful of sockpuppets following a script.

It's too complete, too perfect, too good to be true.

Not to mention it's a very rare occasion one of them gets banned.

All I ask the readers to do is pray, & think for themselves.

I truly believe we're being played for a fool.

 

[Ariel82]

Or we have the Holy spirit using all different types of people to preach His gospel in their own unique way of speaking the same message:

salvation is BY FAITH AND NOT WORKS.

No script needed. Just a renewed mind and heart seeking God's will, lead by His Holy Spirit and speaking in love.

People standing against the false doctrine of works salvation and for the gospel of grace through faith in Jesus.

It's not easy believism or cheap grace to believe that Faith saves. Those terms are used for people who teach that mental assent saves with no Holy spirit change of heart or mind or chastening by God.

But these words will fall on deaf ears because apparently there is a scheme to sucker people or something.

A Fool is someone who doesn't know God. I would hope we don't have anyone playing the fool here.

 

[Grace777x70]

I wonder if this "Christian" thing has anything to do with "grace" that is in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior?

It looks like we have received - grace upon grace through the Lord Jesus Christ

John 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

It looks like we "believe through grace".. ( I'm sure they really meant that we are saved because of the good works we do...)

Acts 18:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Paul said that it was the grace of God that would give the believers their inheritance and it was able to build them up. ( Maybe that's not really important...)

Acts 20:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

Paul said for Timothy to be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. ( He probably didn't really mean it.... )


2 Timothy 2:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.


The apostles said that we are saved by the grace of God ( They probably really meant to say - you are saved by works.)..

Acts 15:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."


Paul says that we are justified "freely" by grace....( He really meant to say - we are justified and continue to be saved by all the good works we do... )

Romans 3:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


Paul says that when we receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness - we reign in life through Christ alone. ( He really meant to say that - those who do good works all the days of their life will receive grace and the gift of righteousness )

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.


Then Paul was really messed up when he told the Ephesians this scripture below- ( He really meant to say - you must do good works in order to create and maintain salvation - Paul was just having an "off" day when he wrote Ephesians )

( And God has even prepared the good works for us to walk in as a result of having His grace that saves us and not any works - we get to participate in the family business of telling people of the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them )


Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


Here Paul told Timothy that God saved us according to His own purpose and grace - not according to our works...( He really meant to say - He will save us if we do enough good works...again Paul was having an "off" day )

2 Timothy 1:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,



Peter says to fix our hope "completely" on the grace that comes with the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. ( It's most likely a mis-print in all 5,000 manuscripts - he really meant to tell us to fix our hope on our good works because you could end up in hell if you don't do enough of them..)

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


Conclusion - this "grace stuff" is really not important at all. We can "do our own works" - and God will be happy with us...

 

[dcontroversal]

Or we have the Holy spirit using all different types of people to preach His gospel in their own unique way of speaking the same message:

salvation is BY FAITH AND NOT WORKS.

No script needed. Just a renewed mind and heart seeking God's will, lead by His Holy Spirit and speaking in love.

People standing against the false doctrine of works salvation and for the gospel of grace through faith in Jesus.

It's not easy believism or cheap grace to believe that Faith saves. Those terms are used for people who teach that mental assent saves with no Holy spirit change of heart or mind or chastening by God.

But these words will fall on deaf ears because apparently there is a scheme to sucker people or something.

Amen......and people with eyes in their head can read.....

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.

Or

In the grace you are, having been saved OUT OF FAITH and that NOT of YOURSELVES it is the GIFT of GOD, not of WORKS lest any man should boast.

OR

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE

OR

If you believe God has raised hi from the dead thou shalt be saved

OR

He that believes on the SON is having everlasting life

OR

With the MIND made BELIEVES unto RIGHTEOUSNESS and with the MOUTH confession is made unto SALVATION

Or

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believes on him should not perish but is HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE

and ON and ON and ON and ON and ON and ON and ON and ON and ON and ON and ON and ON.....................

 

[willybob]

there are those that USE scripture, and there are those who ARE scripture..Know the difference between the two..

The easy grace gospel is from the bottomless pit of man’s imagination (the image of the beast), Satan’s prison…He has been loosed upon them in the little season of this generation of flesh pleasers.

 

[Grace777x70]

If our eternal security and destination is based "on our good works" in order to "stay saved" - name every one of those works that we need to do. Don't leave one out.

How many of these should we do in order to remain saved? Name every one of the good works - we don't want to go to hell.

What if we don't have the same good works one year like we did the last year - does God throw us out of Christ then?

I see no one has told us exactly how many good works we need to have in order to be saved and to remain saved.

If our eternal destination is determined on "good works" - then knowing exactly what every one of them is and how many we need to do and for how long - would be a "HANDY DANDY PIECE" of information to have.

Because according to some people's religion our loving Father who loves His children dearly will throw us in the lake of fire if we don't "do good works" and do enough of them.

We need to have every one of them named and exactly how much we need to do them in order to stop our Father from throwing us into hell.

( Notice that Christ is not involved in this at all - it is all us - oh the smart ones will give "lip-service" to the term grace and faith but Christ is not central - we are. We are our own Savior by our good works. It's an anti-Christ belief system. )