Not By Works

[Ariel82]

A song for you EG before I go..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hWdY8mwDgRA

 

[FranC]

That is why I responded with the following quote:



Yet they really don't know who actually wrote the Gospel of John.



Did you know that when Jesus was born that the world was under the rule of one throne and ruler who sat on that throne who was called the Son of God.

Luke 2:1
2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.


Did you know that Augustus's title as ruler of the Roman Empire was Imperator Caesar Divi Filius Augustus. Divi Filius is latin for Son of God.

Zmouth,

It's kind of difficult to see that tiny writing.

From what I know, it's accepted that John the Apostle wrote the gospel of John and the 3 epistles and also Revelation.
You could tell by how he referred to himself in the first person.
He is referred to as the Beloved Disciple and this was certainly John the Apostle.
John 21:20, 23.24.

Irenaeus testifies to the effect that this is John, son of Zebedee.
(He was an early Church theologian).

Yes. The known world was under one ruler. Caesar means god. Caesers were gods, until they got sick or died, then they realized they weren't gods after all. But it must have been nice for them to be treated as one since they were pagans all the way.

And no, I do not know Latin.
Thanks for the info.

 

[Zi]

2 peter 1:2-4

 

[Ariel82]

Yes, once again it's been entertaining to see the church pontificate about how salvation is by faith apart from works (which it is), and then say for that reason you do not have to have works attached to your faith to be saved, but then they'll turn right around and insist that they are not saying dead faith (faith without works attached) saves. Lol!

Wrong again....dead faith is Faith that doesn't have the Holy spirit attached..,,rotten faith is Faith that is not in the Gospel of Christ but a false gospel that leads to death.

Neither saves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 6, just read it and listen to Paul

We have victory over sin through the cross and by the Spirit.
We put to death the works of the flesh and walk in Gods grace.

We keep the law, because it is the measure of walking in obedience
to Christ.

And the reason you cannot answer romans 6 is because it teaches something
you cannot face and shows you are simply wrong.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/154487-sin-living-free-romans-6-a.html#post3155866

If you want to answer romans 6, you can do so here.

Yeah read romans 6

We have been baptized into his body

We have been baptized into his death

That just as he lived, WE SHALL LIVE ALSO.

You di dnot do any of it peter. God did it all. But you want to take credit, So sad.

PS, God does not use Peters defenition of sin, He uses his own. And you can not live up to that standard peter. No one can, Only Christ did.

When will you stop watering down Gods law. and give your life to him peter.

 

[gb9]

Hey my friend, why would we scream anything?
If you do not want to listen to Jesus and God that is your problem.

Sin defiles everyone, and the Lord does not accept defiled people.

If you can come to Christ, knowing a little and calling out of need, the ability to turn
around is also part of it all. The Lord draws, but He only wants those who truly respond.

This world is a world is shadow, while the Kingdom of heaven is rock solid and real.
People think they only see vaguely because the truth is vague but it is they who are
vague and unclear. The clearer we become in hearts the more obvious who our King
truly is.

It is not like we are establishing something to people who have a clue, but rather Gods
presence in someones life makes them more real.

Now if sin has a hold in your life, start to work it through with Christ, bring it to Him,
explain it, work through how it begins, occurs and ends.

now, have you completely worked through the sins of lying, slandering, being deceitful about what others , even the Bible, say?/

that is a biggggggg no. so, work though your own sins before you tell others about theirs. you know, take the plank out of your own eye.

 

[FranC]

Gal 3 is speaking to ANYONE who is trying to earn salvation.

There is no difference between you and a pharisee, you both practice the same self righteousness, While lieing about others.

You are teaching the very same thing they are Fran. You may not be telling people they have to be circumcized, But your telling them they have to be righteous. Which is the same as telling them to return to law.

It is a fact, If you claim to bs saved origionally by the spirit. but demand we must maintain that salvation by the flesh. Paul calls you a fool.

If you have no desire to heed his warning, thats on you.

Once again,
Thanks for the insults.

Please learn the difference between OBEDIENCE OF THE LAW
OBEDIENCE OF FAITH

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then why do we see so many OSAS churches that actually do re-dedication altar calls? If you are OSAS, why should you ever have to rededicate anything? including your faith and commitment to follow Jesus again?

Rededicating is not the same as getting re-saved.

Not that I agree with alter calls. I think we should fall on our knees where we are. But why would you ask about that. Have you never fallen, and got back on your feet and rededicate yourself to God?

 

[PHart]

...or in some cases give them over to satan for the destruction of the flesh. (Though their spirit will be raised to life).

The person who can't lose his salvation has to have the flesh destroyed so he can be saved? Interesting.

1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB
5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and they refuse to answer questions like post #14552

Then why do we see so many OSAS churches that actually do re-dedication altar calls? If you are OSAS, why should you ever have to rededicate anything? including your faith and commitment to follow Jesus again?

Answered.

So your going to sit there and say the people who say we think works are evil, We think we do not have to obey God after salvation, and we can live in sin are slandering us?

What would you call it then?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So the action of our salvation is our own?

remember, he started a thread to discuss why the cross is not enough.

 

[FranC]

Works do not prove anything, The pharisee had alot of what you would call works. How much did it prove they were of God.

Of course works prove something.
James 2:14-26

Did James lie??

Most likeyly James, the BROTHER of JESUS wrote this epistle.

Am I to believe HIM or you???

 

[PennEd]

Yes, once again it's been entertaining to see the church pontificate about how salvation is by faith apart from works (which it is), and then say for that reason you do not have to have works attached to your faith to be saved, but then they'll turn right around and insist that they are not saying dead faith (faith without works attached) saves. Lol!

Hello PH. Maybe you didn't see what I asked earlier. Perfectly understandable with how quickly pages pile up in this thread.

So again. Can you tell me what works the thief on the cross did to attain, maintain, or prove his salvation?
Also. Are you saying that ALL deathbed conversions are null and void because those people didn't do any works?

What about the Corinthian guy doing the works of having sex with his mother? Paul tells us that his spirit will be raised on the last day.

Finally, can you tell me how many, and what exact works are necessary to attain, maintain, or prove you are saved, and I'm guessing you never really know til death if you are saved or not?

I know a lot of questions, but I'm a little pressed for time, so I put them all in one post.
Thanks

 

[PHart]

Once again,
Thanks for the insults.

Please learn the difference between OBEDIENCE OF THE LAW
OBEDIENCE OF FAITH

I'm actually getting a kick out of being in a forum where everyone can throw their Bibles at each other, tip the pews over, throw chairs around, and mom and dad never come into the room to break it up. Lol. (I miss my lol smilie, though).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You hit it right on. They will not admit it but once they say we must do good works or believe to stay saved they have missed the entire message of atonement.

They preach we must obey gods commands, which would include the law. yet they do not see how the law teaches no lay person could ever atone for their own sin, The high priest had to do it, and in order to do it, he had to slaughter a perfect unblemished lamb.

It seems the law has not yet done it job in these people yet.

 

[FranC]

It does not say in here to work to maintain salvation.

[B[U]]It says if your faith is real [/U](only people who have true faith will remain, People who just believe will walk away, Because they are not new creatures.)

The author of Hebrews, Like james, is telling people to test their faith. CHANCES ARE THEY ARE NOT ALL SAVED![/B]

MY GOD do you think your pitiful works are going to cause God to say come on in Fran, You made it? Do you even understand the cross?

Forget I asked, it is obvious by what you continue to say you have no idea of the meaning of atonement. Your trying to atone yourself.

Do I attack you personally?
No. Because I have the bible on my side.

WHY do you Always attack me personally???

You started a sentence up above.

You didn't finish it... It's highlighted.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Titus 3:8..

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. [SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, [SUP]5 [/SUP]not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]6 [/SUP]whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, [SUP]7 [/SUP]that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.[SUP]8 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

The works in vs 8 are not to save us, or maintain salvation, Paul proved that in verse 5.

Paul did not contradict himself.

 

[PHart]

Hello PH. Maybe you didn't see what I asked earlier. Perfectly understandable with how quickly pages pile up in this thread.

So again. Can you tell me what works the thief on the cross did to attain, maintain, or prove his salvation?

To 'attain' salvation.
I see you don't understand the argument either.
Oh, well.

And of course, we can all have a dead faith and it will save us because a poor slob was nailed on a cross and could only move his lips to ask Jesus to remember him, yet was saved despite his 'dead' faith. Will the madness ever stop?

 

[FranC]

the lack of 'unity and show of pride and race for the last-word,' simply proves that many seek
to exonerate their own religious beliefs...confusion and chaos respect no man or woman...

we long to see the Heart of God in our brothers and sisters words, spiked with Charity's seasonings...

I hope you don't mean me.

I write for those reading along.
The truth must be told.

 

[Seekingfamily]

Just have to throw this in, just to think about. The thief on the cross...Was his works, that he believed Jesus, and was sorry for what he did? Just wondering