Not By Works

[FranC]

This is why I don't make one sentence responses because you twist what I say into a lie.

I have never said works are evil or for heathens.

I said even heathens believe they can do good works and earn their way into heaven..see Buddhist or Muslim religions for example.

The law of Karma, etc.

One sentence?

Sanctification requires God's work within us.

You said:

THE HEATHEN FAITH OF WORKS SALVATION.

This means that "works salvation" is a "heathen faith".

It' plain simple English.

I'm not twisting anyting around.
It's plain for all to see.

Works do not save us.
But works keep us saved. If you want to call this "works salvation", be my guest.

And I'm NOT a heathen.

 

[FranC]

God, is just, whoever does not confirm and obey every jot and tittle of the law is cursed.

h does not give leeway, he does not water down his law. He gave a requirement, and said follow it or else.

For thae who ADMIT the can not, and come to him in grace and mercy by repenting, he gave us another option, his son.

So, now we're getting to the bottom line...:

You said:

God gave a requirement.

Whoever does not obey is cursed.

He does not give leeway,
He does not water down His Law.

For those who CANNOT admit that they cannot keep the Law, they go to Him in grace and mercy by repenting and He gave them ANOTHER WAY: HIS SON.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

What does this mean?
That if I go to God via His son, I don't have to obey? Because I just cannot?

See EG. The way you word your thoughts is TERRIBLE.

Here again, you make it sound like it's ok not to obey God, it's ok to sin, anyway, we have Jesus.

It's the other way around...

JESUS MAKES IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO OBEY.

It's not that WE DON'T HAVE TO OBEY.

SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND...

How many times do I have to post
John 14:15

"If you love Me, you will keep my commandments".
NASB

You make it sound like there are no commandments...

 

[FranC]

When will you stop his nonsense?

no one is saying works are evil except you and Peter and a few of your buddies,

if if you are going to refuse to listen to a word everyone says, and continue use to slander them. Why bother even talking to them?

Sanctficatuon, do you sanctify yourself or does God sanctify you?

Please, if you want to boast of your works, can you do it someplace else, it makes true believers sick, because we work by gods power, he gets the credit not us.

Why do you think we do not boast that of works? We d them, we just realize apart from God they are meaningless.

1. People reading along understand English. They don't need you to translate.

2. You do seem to be saying that works are evil.

3. Please show me here I slandered anyone.

4. I and God are working TOGETHER to sanctify me. It is NOT only God's work. That is simple theology.

5. I've said many times that if you "work by God's power" and you sin, then you make it out to be GOD who is making you sin.

6. You do works? Why not just admit it???

7. I like it here.

 

[PeterJens]

in this thread you have people screaming God has given us victory over sin

This reminds me of the phrase, can people hear you scream in space.

The answer is no.

So this is just a strange invention on something that is impossible, so you have to laugh, like
an insult meant to wound, but actually can never exist.

And on people saying God has given us victory over sin, listen to what Paul says

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin — because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
rom 6:6-7

Paul is saying in Christ we are free from sin, we no longer sin, we are slaves to righteousness,
sin has lost its hold on us.

Now if Christ has set us free from the bondage of sin, this is the power that many claim is
impossible, so God has done the impossible, Halleluyah.

 

[FranC]

Those that have received Christ are abiding in Christ. It is a place where believers are - in Christ. Paul talked about being in Christ and He is us over 140x times in his letters.

There is no such thing as leaving Christ - that is what the Catholic religion teaches and all those that teach works-based salvation which is an anti-Christ belief humanistic mindset that is nothing more than a religion and it is no different from any other religion in the world.

It is called the "works of the law".

Romans 3:20-24 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

[SUP]21 [/SUP] But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

[SUP]22 [/SUP] even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

[SUP]24[/SUP] being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

Redemption is a gift received by grace not of works. It is only found in Christ.

The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being led by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we live our lives dependent on Him. It is His fruit that bears in and through us.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9[/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[SUP]10[/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Why do some here keep bringing up the Catholic religion?

First of all, they're right in many doctrine.
Second of all, they kept the faith pure for hundreds of years.
Thirdly, they wrote all the major dogma of the Christian Faith.
Fourth, they have the best theologians from way back at the beginning.

I mean, are YOU Catholic that you keep bringing it up?
Do ALL PROTESTANTS, of which I'm one, believe is OSAS?

I DON'T THINK SO.

You could check but most protestants beleive that salvation CAN BE LOST.

Of course, Calvinism and easy believism and cheap grace are becoming predominant in this day and age due t the laziness of our society, so who knows.... OSAS is still wrong.

 

[FranC]

it's not your job to look for it. God made no one on earth a fruit inspector, though many think that they are.

You don't have to INSPECT.

It kind of comes POPPING OUT AT YOU.

Those with the fruit of the love of God can be seen miles off.

Those who SAY they have the fruit, but don't, can be seen miles off.

Simple to spot.

No inspection necessary.

 

[PeterJens]

Romans 6, just read it and listen to Paul

We have victory over sin through the cross and by the Spirit.
We put to death the works of the flesh and walk in Gods grace.

We keep the law, because it is the measure of walking in obedience
to Christ.

And the reason you cannot answer romans 6 is because it teaches something
you cannot face and shows you are simply wrong.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/154487-sin-living-free-romans-6-a.html#post3155866

If you want to answer romans 6, you can do so here.

 

[FranC]

it's not your job to look for it. God made no one on earth a fruit inspector, though many think that they are.

P.S.

Fruit inspector????

Some here think they're God,
knowing who is saved and who isn't.

Please keep the scales balanced and mention something to them too...

 

[gb9]

Why do some here keep bringing up the Catholic religion?

First of all, they're right in many doctrine.
Second of all, they kept the faith pure for hundreds of years.
Thirdly, they wrote all the major dogma of the Christian Faith.
Fourth, they have the best theologians from way back at the beginning.

I mean, are YOU Catholic that you keep bringing it up?
Do ALL PROTESTANTS, of which I'm one, believe is OSAS?

I DON'T THINK SO.

You could check but most protestants beleive that salvation CAN BE LOST.

Of course, Calvinism and easy believism and cheap grace are becoming predominant in this day and age due t the laziness of our society, so who knows.... OSAS is still wrong.

and here is this whole argument- you and others scream about how salvation can be " lost ", yet you have no exact formula as to how. you just pluck verses out of context, try ( and fail ) to make Scripture be against other Scripture, and talk about faith as the saving agent when grace is, the N.T. says this over and over.

I do agree that coming to Christ does not cancel one's free will, and that one could choose to believe and then later choose not to believe, but this probably means one never really truly believed............

 

[tourist]

We all can have works to prove it.

I taught 6 year olds how to have works.

If they see a child in the Street, hurt, are they to help him or ignore him?

THAT IS A WORK.

It's absolutely necessary to teach children how God expects us to act and treat Others.

What "milk" do you feed them??

They know Jesus loves them.
How long does it take to teach that?

Jesus love me this I know,
For the bible tells me so...


NOW WHAT??

...little ones to Him belong,
We are weak but He is strong.

 

[FranC]

Being "obedient to the faith" is believing in Christ and His work for us for life and living.

Notice here that even the good moral living - full of good works law-keeping priests need to be "obedient to the faith". The keeping of the law of Moses is NOT the same as being "obedient to the faith".

Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.


Pagans/Gentiles also need to be "obedient to the faith" and believe in Christ and what He has done for life and living.

Romans 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,

Agreed.

Obedience of Faith is when we OBEY God because we have faith in Him and because we love and want to follow Him.

OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW is when we're trying to get to heaven under our own steam--- we don't depend on Jesus or the Holy Spirit but we depend on our works. God does not want our works, He wants our heart.

 

[Meggido]

and here is this whole argument- you and others scream about how salvation can be " lost ", yet you have no exact formula as to how. you just pluck verses out of context, try ( and fail ) to make Scripture be against other Scripture, and talk about faith as the saving agent when grace is, the N.T. says this over and over.

I do agree that coming to Christ does not cancel one's free will, and that one could choose to believe and then later choose not to believe, but this probably means one never really truly believed............

Then why do we see so many OSAS churches that actually do re-dedication altar calls? If you are OSAS, why should you ever have to rededicate anything? including your faith and commitment to follow Jesus again?

 

[Stephen63]

1. People reading along understand English. They don't need you to translate.

2. You do seem to be saying that works are evil.

3. Please show me here I slandered anyone.

4. I and God are working TOGETHER to sanctify me. It is NOT only God's work. That is simple theology.

5. I've said many times that if you "work by God's power" and you sin, then you make it out to be GOD who is making you sin.

6. You do works? Why not just admit it???

7. I like it here.

They're playin' the game again, aren't they?

"Yeah, if you'd quit slandering people"

They will slander you, pick a fight, then accuse YOU of doing it.

They think no one sees them doing what they do.

 

[Zmouth]

Zmouth,

I'm sorry for getting into this.
It seems there's some confusion.

The New Testament speaks of two John's.

One is John the Baptist, as you know he was the cousin of Jesus. They were about 6 months apart in age, John the Baptist being the older.

That is why I responded with the following quote:

I agree, yet the Gospel of John was not written by John the baptist.

Yet they really don't know who actually wrote the Gospel of John.

Did you know that in those days when a King or Governor or some very important person had to go to a town or city for whatever reason, men were sent before him to prepare the way. They actually cleared the road of rocks or bushes or any other obstacle so that the trip would be easier for the King making the trip.

Did you know that when Jesus was born that the world was under the rule of one throne and ruler who sat on that throne who was called the Son of God.

Luke 2:1
2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.


Did you know that Augustus's title as ruler of the Roman Empire was Imperator Caesar Divi Filius Augustus. Divi Filius is latin for Son of God.

 

[Meggido]

They're playin' the game again, aren't they?

"Yeah, if you'd quit slandering people"

They will slander you, pick a fight, then accuse YOU of doing it.

They think no one sees them doing what they do.

and they refuse to answer questions like post #14552

Then why do we see so many OSAS churches that actually do re-dedication altar calls? If you are OSAS, why should you ever have to rededicate anything? including your faith and commitment to follow Jesus again?

 

[stonesoffire]

Just as you used to offer yourselves as

slaves to
impurity and to ever-increasing
wickedness,

so now offer yourselves as

slaves to
righteousness leading to
holiness.

Rom 6:19

So the action of our salvation is our own?

 

[FranC]

Now teach how the law leads folks to learn how they are a sinner in need of a Savior and can't be saved BY WORKS and what a true saving faith is.

A saving faith is more than that God loves them.

Do you truly not know what the milk is?

Works of righteousness is part of the Law (which is good when used rightly).... The law leads people to Christ but is not salvation or the gospel.

I like to explain how the Jews were enslaved in Egypt for over 400 years. How they forgot how to be civil because they were so concerned with just trying to survive and stay alive. How they lost all culture and knowledge.

Kids understand better that the Law was given to teach people how to live. You can get in there about how it shows us to be sinners but they won't really grasp this till they're at least in their early teens.

Most little kids don't even believe they ARE sinners. They only way to make them believe it is to show them HOW they've broken the commandments. It sometimes takes weeks or months.

They understand that Jesus gives them the opportunity to go to heaven if we follow Him. They understand "savior" much later on.

A saving faith?
That makes them worry. "Do I have a saving faith"????

Better to tell them WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO to get saved. It's easier.
I can prove it to you with the story of Ruth, but I must go make dinner now.
It has to do with that culture leaving some wheat on the thrashing floor for the poor people.
Maybe you know this...

Milk.

I like to get right to the meat. Milk is a waste of time.
meat, but in small doses and in a way it could be understood.

What is milk anyway???
je ne sais pas.

 

[Seekingfamily]

I liked reading no.5
I have a relative that would use God, to say it was okay to molest his very young daughters. Said God gave him power to do so. One daughter thought to herself "No way would God allow this!" She was not molested, as she stood her ground of how wrong it was. The other daughter said nothing, and he molested her.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you do this EG?
post scripture that has nothing to do with anything?

Galatians 3 is speaking about Jews who were returning to the Law.
The Law of Moses.

Are you stuck in the O.T. or the O.C.?

I'm talking about the N.T. and the N.C.

You should find out the difference between
Obedience to the Law
and
Obedience of Faith.

I will not give you the lesson since you don't trust me.
However, you SHOULD find out the difference.

I'll only say that IN BOTH CASES, we are REQUIRED to follow the Law.

Please see
Galatians 5:24-26

Those who belong to Christ are to crucify the flesh with its passions and desires.
If we live by the spirit, let us also WALK BY THE SPIRIT.

Do I hear in these verses that's it's enough to have faith in jesus?
No. I hear that we are to crucify the flesh.
This is repeated many times in the N.T.

I do not recall ever hearing Jesus say that it is SUFFICIENT to believe in Him to be saved.
I do hear that believing in Him will make it easier to FOLLOW HIM.

Big difference.

Gal 3 is speaking to ANYONE who is trying to earn salvation.

There is no difference between you and a pharisee, you both practice the same self righteousness, While lieing about others.

You are teaching the very same thing they are Fran. You may not be telling people they have to be circumcized, But your telling them they have to be righteous. Which is the same as telling them to return to law.

It is a fact, If you claim to bs saved origionally by the spirit. but demand we must maintain that salvation by the flesh. Paul calls you a fool.

If you have no desire to heed his warning, thats on you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We all can have works to prove it.

I taught 6 year olds how to have works.

If they see a child in the Street, hurt, are they to help him or ignore him?

THAT IS A WORK.

It's absolutely necessary to teach children how God expects us to act and treat Others.

What "milk" do you feed them??

They know Jesus loves them.
How long does it take to teach that?

Jesus love me this I know,
For the bible tells me so...


NOW WHAT??

Works do not prove anything, The pharisee had alot of what you would call works. How much did it prove they were of God.