Not By Works

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FranC said:
Sounds like two to me, but as long as YOU are happy...
I just hope you don't understand all of scripture like you understand the two great commandments.
(No wonder you don't really understand scripture well)



Matthew 22:36-40 New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a]

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”



Did you say it was only ONE commandment?
You should read the N.T. again. I really mean it.
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IMO, if one is loving God with all of the mind, heart and soul, he will also love his neighbor as well. Jesus did say the second was like the first. But you are right there are two.
 
FranC said:
It's unfortunate for some here that the Church fathers do not agree wth you.
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Even more unfortunate for those who value the church fathers above the word of God and Jesus Christ.

The church cannot save you in fact it cannot save itself. When the wheat and the tares are separated the pope, the cardinals, and all the parish priests will be sorted out with the tares. All who espouse the church doctrine over the word of God will be in that sad state.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
This is a sticky topic. There is a verse in the Bible that says "Great peace have they which love thy law and nothing shall offend them." If I get offended, I would try loving God's law more. The Scripture is clear we are saved by God's grace through faith not by works.
 
Meggido said:
neither.....

Fear and obedience are not required for salvation....belief and verbal confession are [Rom 10.9-10]
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The fear of the Lord is the begin of wisdom and knowledge. Jesus said, "not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, but they that do the will of my father." Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. . Mat. 7:21
 
notuptome said:
Even more unfortunate for those who value the church fathers above the word of God and Jesus Christ.

The church cannot save you in fact it cannot save itself. When the wheat and the tares are separated the pope, the cardinals, and all the parish priests will be sorted out with the tares. All who espouse the church doctrine over the word of God will be in that sad state.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Oh, are you Catholic??

I value the Church Fathers before Calvin, and anyone else who does not agree with them since they were there.

Kind of like being at Kennedy's funeral instead of hearing about it or seeing it on TV many years later.
 
Burninglight said:
The fear of the Lord is the begin of wisdom and knowledge. Jesus said, "not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, but they that do the will of my father." Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. . Mat. 7:21
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In post no. 14101 Meggido said that NEITHER fear NOR OBEDIENCE of the Law will save us.

IOW, It is not necessary that we obey the Laws of God.

You will be hearing strange things on this thread.
 
Burninglight said:
This is a sticky topic. There is a verse in the Bible that says "Great peace have they which love thy law and nothing shall offend them." If I get offended, I would try loving God's law more. The Scripture is clear we are saved by God's grace through faith not by works.
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You are correct.
Ephesians 2:8
We are saved by grace through faith.
That is salvation.

The question is:

Are we required to keep the Laws of God AFTER salvation?
It would seem that some ARE offended.

Psalm 119:165
 
There is only one true catholic church; those that wear "denominational tags," they will fall off in heaven, in hell burn off.
 
FranC said:
What is true faith in God but following His commandments?

What you call FAITH IN SELF, is YOUR fear of WORKING.
As if there was something AGAINST GOD in working for HIM.

This has to be one of the most convoluted ideas in Christianity today.

JESUS SAID:

John 17:3
"And THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE, that they may KNOW THEE, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent."
NASB

If we want eternal life, we are to know the one true God, and Jesus Christ.

What does "to know" mean? I hear from some who post here that KNOW in the Greek means to "know intimately", not just with the mind, but with the heart.

JESUS SAID

John 17:16
"They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."
NASB


If we, believers to whom Jesus was speaking of, are not of this world, it means that we should be different and that this difference should be noticed by all.

So the argument that our "works" are a superficial and exterior means for "men to see" and NOT GOD, is a farce and as false a statement as could be made.

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DIFFERENT. THE DIFFERENCE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SEEN BY ALL.

When persons call their Brother Christians unsaved, judge their very soul, and their motives for speaking the TRUTH, they certainly are NOT behaving in a manner worthy to be called Christianly.


JESUS SAID

John 14:15
"IF you LOVE ME, you will KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS".
NASB

And yet I hear some on this thread say that it is not NECESSARY to keep God's commandments, we only keep them BECAUSE we're saved. That's not what Jesus said. He said IF WE LOVE HIM, WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

This does not denote a CHOICE. He said we ARE TO KEEP THEM.

So... Why the hesitancy to state this plainly???

Salvation is a free gift.
KEEPING SALAVATION IS A WORK.

You're either IN THE KINGDOM
or you're OUT OF THE KINGDOM.

If you're in the Kingdom, you follow the rules to remain there.

If you want to live in the U.S.A., you must follow the RULES and REGULATIONS and LAWS of that country, or you'll be put in prison or kicked out altogether.

If you want to be a part of God's Kingdom, you must follow the rules and regulations and Laws of that Kingdom, or you are NOT a part of it.

1 John 2:1-14
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this is all self righteousness, it is saying Gods love is based on how well you do or how much work you do.

obedience to God is faith, but not as you think , it is trust in God,

sin is lack of of trust in God.

if I trust God that it is in my best interest and I will truly be blessed if I do not commit sexual sin, or that I will hurt myself and others if I do commit it, I will not commit sexual sin, not because I love God, not because I want to earn salvation, but because I trust God.

noah built the ark because he trusted god

abraham offered to sacrifice his son because he trusted God,

read hebrewd wall wall of faith, all were obedient because they trusted God,

again, you can not say you trust God, when you do not even trust him to save you completely, let alone give him your sin areas, I can okay rules or laws. But if it is not out of trust in God, but for gaining salvation.
 
FranC said:
Did Abel not push his works?
Why not?
Explain please.

Did he not have to shepherd and raise those sheep?
Is it not difficult work?
I'd say it is more difficult to raise a lamb than to raise a vegetable.

You keep saying that Caine offered his labor.
Explain the difference between Abel's sacrifice and Caine's sacrifice.

Thanks.
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how did Abel push his works? He sacrificed his prized sheep, that's not work, that's sacrifice, the lamb sacrificed itself so Abel can have forgiveness.
 
FranC said:
Could we stop all the talking.

IS IT NECESSARY TO KEEP THE LAW OR NOT.

that's a yes or no answer.
Thanks.
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for salvation? That's an I,possible task, you can not keep it as required, to say you can is to water down the law
 
FranC said:
Let me ask you this. Something I usually do not do, but just for discussion's sake...


Man no. 1 follows the commandments because he loves God.

Man no. 2 follows the commandments because he fears God.



They both know God.
They both know Jesus.
They both do their best.

WHO IS SAVED?
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niether,

because we TRUST God,

wirhout FAITH it is impossible to please God.
 
FranC said:
Oh, are you Catholic??

I value the Church Fathers before Calvin, and anyone else who does not agree with them since they were there.

Kind of like being at Kennedy's funeral instead of hearing about it or seeing it on TV many years later.
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They would not have me. I would not submit to their rules.

I have been married into a catholic family for over forty years. All the catholics said it would never last. They have been divorced and remarried the priest left the ministry and my wife and I are together and serving the Lord.

I've been to catholic funerals and I've been to the funerals of Christians and there is a real difference. I've been to masses in the catholic church. I have first hand knowledge and experience of catholics.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
burninglight

I wouldn't even say that phrase anymore...though I understand what you mean.

The body of Christ on earth moves with Him. Led by the Spirit.

But, unity is a key to the moving. Some have this in their life.
 
FranC said:
You are correct.
Ephesians 2:8
We are saved by grace through faith.
That is salvation.

The question is:

Are we required to keep the Laws of God AFTER salvation?
It would seem that some ARE offended.

Psalm 119:165
Click to expand...

Can you keep the law according to Gods standard, even after salvation? Think about that, then answer yes or no
 
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