Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

How is it possible to go to heaven if you don't believe in eternal life?

It isn't possible...and so far the only ones who have an issue with this thread are those who espouse and push a working for sinless lie.........

FAITH is what saves....faith plus works leads to a false gospel and NO POWER to save...Galatians is clear....

 

[Ariel82]

There is only one side....the side Jesus is on.....as in HIS SIDE.......He said faith saves eternally.......not temporarily.....

Yeah and the mirror she holds up just tells us she follows men and not Jesus (since she accuses others falsely of this log in her own eye or perhaps she jealously send followers?). The Holy spirit is a sidenote to consult when two men she worships contradict one another (she said so herself that she would rather trust men wiser than herself and made belittling comments about those who trust in4he Holy spirit and the Bible and don't follow those men she thinks are so wise)

She doesn't seem to realize most aren't "followers of men" as she herself had professed to being.

Most actually pray, read the Bible themselves and follow Jesus,

Yes the writings of other believers shape us, however ultimately we will stand before God based upon our own words and beliefs and not upon whose writtings/commentary on the Bible we agree with or understand.

Maybe one day she will be honest with herself and others.

What do you have faith in?

Jesus ability to save you?

..,,or your ability to obey His laws?

 

[dcontroversal]

No Grace.
We understand it very well.

Maybe you missed the important part...

Not those who cry Lord,Lord,

But THOSE WHO DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.

Those who do the WILL OF THE FATHER will make it to be with God forever.

Yep and the will of the FATHER is to BELIEVE on him whom he hath sent......

 

[Ariel82]

they would have to fit their words into all the gospel says,

does the gospel of works offer the believer that he will never die? Is death abolished in their gospel? As jesus said in John 6. WHoever hears him and believes will never die, live forever, never hunger or thirst, has eternal life, and will be risen.

Do they offer that HOPE in their gospel?

they say they do, but do they?

They offer the hope but never the reality...clouds without rain...

The reality of the peace and joy found in the Holy spirit should help people overcome the lies the world would bind them with.

Yet some would add more chains when Jesus has already set them free.

 

[PennEd]

Hi PennEd,

I really came back for you. A serious question. What Bible Study is for.

You're writing to get clarification on my understanding of Mathew 5:20
I'd like to make two comments first:

1. It is NOT MY understanding. Unlike those who read the bible and say they are guided by the Holy Spirit, I depend on persons much more intelligent than myself for my understanding. I find that different persons depending on the Holy Spirit will often times come up with two different concepts, so that is not a method I feel I can trust.

IF there are two differing opinions, THEN I search through scripture and pray and arrive at the conclusion I feel the Holy Spirit is leading to.


2. You've done something another poster here does, you've listed many different bibles for the same scripture.
Do you feel that each version says somethnig different? Are not ALL versions of the bible the same? They are. No need to list a bunch of bibles to get to the truth.

I have many bibles. I use the NASB for my reading. If I need clarification on something, I use the NIV. Most times the bible is very clear and to the point. It's important to know some facts about this book as a Whole to be able to exegete any verse -- this comes with time and Learning and being taught by a good mainline church.



Now to get to Mathew 5:20

Matthew 5:20 New International Version (NIV)

20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The pharisees followed every law as perfectly as possible, and yet Jesus is mad at them.
The Seven Woes
Mathew chapter 23

Jesus tells us that unless we SURPASS the righteousness of the pharisees we will not go to heaven.

How does one surpass a person who is keeping all the Law?
(I thought I had explained this)

It happens by moving the Law from the mind to the heart.
Ezekiel 36:26

External actions are not important to God. The Pharisees were worshipping God in an external manner but did not love Him.
They could not go to heaven by being hypocrites. One cannot MAKE BELIEVE he loves God. God knows our heart. We must truly love Him.

This does not mean that we are not to obey God. He takes away none of His Laws. HE has created them, for different reasons, and He does expect us to follow them.

So the difference is that the pharisees were self-righteous. They were proud of following the Law, and only in their mind and not in their heart.

We are to follow Jesus. Jesus expects an internal change.
The Beatitudes in Mathew 5 tell us that blessed are the poor in spirit.
The poor in spirit are those that understand that they are totally dependent on God and look to Him for everything.
They understand how poor they are without Him.

So we depend on Him and on the Holy Spirit for our strength and our help.
Our love for God by heart and not by "show" keeps us in His trusty hands.


I don't know how to explain it better than this.
Would you agree?

(I'll check back in)

Hey Fran, First let me say that sometimes we get so wrapped up with the passion of our thoughts, and the desire to have the other person see it our way, that we forget that primarily we are called to love one another. Without that, as 1 Corinthians 13 tells us, EVERYTHING else is worthless. So I do love you Fran, and am certain others here do as well.

I don't think you're post here is terribly off the mark. We DO get a new heart. We don't have our lost heart fixed. And that's really the point. Following Christ is natural for His children. It's who we are. We don't have to force it. It's innate in the new creation we have become.

An apple tree will naturally bear apples. It does not have to work at what it does naturally.

It's so important that we realize that OUR FRUITS (of the Holy Spirit) result in good works, and that good works NEVER result in bearing fruit. Getting that backwards, I believe, is what is at the heart of those who want to receive the fruits by doing their work.

The reason I mentioned the Bible translation, is because the verse you emphasized had a clearly different meaning than every other translation I could find, Here it is again:

"UNLESS YOU DO EVEN BETTER THAN THE PHARISSES IN THE MATTER OF LIVING RIGHTEOUSLY, YOU WILL KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ENTERNG THE KINGDOM.
Mathew 5:20"

Can you tell me what translation that is from? Be blessed, and have a great day.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They offer the hope but never the reality...clouds without rain...

The reality of the peace and joy found in the Holy spirit should help people overcome the lies the world would bind them with.

Yet some would add more chains when Jesus has already set them free.

what they offer is confusion.

They say yes, Jesus keeps his words, If you believe then you have all that.

But then turn it around, and say but if you stop believing you do not.

so where is the confusion

If I believe, I have it, I have Gods assurance I will never die, Never hunger or thirst, have forever, Have eternal life and will be raised.

Either i have them or I do not. If I have them, God must keep his word, If i can lose them by loss of faith, then I never had them to begin with.

So the confusion is they say yes, you have them, but reality is, you do not..

 

[dcontroversal]

Dear all,

Well I haven't been back in to this thread for a while but what I can see so far from the many comments I have been reading, I think this thread has it's origins from Babylon. Well, not literally but there seems to be a lot of confusion in here. Just saying, still love you all .

God bless you

The only confusion is found in those who push works in addition to faith for salvation....where do you stand.....Galatians is clear...FAITH plus works = a false gospel with no power.....so far it seems you fall on the side of embellishing salvation based upon faith with your own effort and works based upon what I have read of your replies and the posts you like....so

Faith alone saves and the works are the result of the faith and salvation one already has

or

FAITH PLUS WORKS obtains and or earns salvation

WORKS or GRACE...which is it?

 

[G00WZ]

As far as I'm concerned...We're NOT arguing.

We're having a discussion regarding eternal security.
And I'm posting for those reading along.

Because I believe eternal security is a really bad doctrine and is Worth spending time on it.

It becomes less of a discussion and more of a free for all battle the longer it goes...You cant debate people into submission, or into agreement, it actually does the opposite, even if you are speaking truth, or correcting someone. There comes a time when you have to shake the dust off your feet, rather than be emotionally bound to a discussion. It leaves room for losing your peace, going off topic, and more-so into the carnal side of things.

 

[blue_ladybug]

One more time for those who have short term memories..

Grace through faith is what saves us. Add to that, belief in Jesus. So grace, faith and belief are what saves us.

Not the lawn you mow for your disabled neighbor.

Not the meal you serve at a soup kitchen.

Not the ride you give to someone who needs one.

WORKS DO NOT SAVE US.

End of story.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

Dear all,

Well I haven't been back in to this thread for a while but what I can see so far from the many comments I have been reading, I think this thread has it's origins from Babylon. Well, not literally but there seems to be a lot of confusion in here. Just saying, still love you all .

God bless you

The only confusion is found in those who push works in addition to faith for salvation....where do you stand.....Galatians is clear...FAITH plus works = a false gospel with no power.....so far it seems you fall on the side of embellishing salvation based upon faith with your own effort and works based upon what I have read of your replies and the posts you like....so

Faith alone saves and the works are the result of the faith and salvation one already has

or

FAITH PLUS WORKS obtains and or earns salvation

WORKS or GRACE...which is it?

He believes that Christians should follow the Sabbath from Friday night until Saturday and if not - then we have fallen for the deception of Babylon.

Here is the website of this particular sects beliefs from his signature. This will show where certain thoughts and beliefs are coming from.

https://www.beastsmark.com/deception

And you are right - it is works-based-law based righteousness doctrine.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

Dear all,

Well I haven't been back in to this thread for a while but what I can see so far from the many comments I have been reading, I think this thread has it's origins from Babylon. Well, not literally but there seems to be a lot of confusion in here. Just saying, still love you all .

God bless you




He believes that Christians should follow the Sabbath from Friday night until Saturday and if not - then we have fallen for the deception of Babylon.

Here is the website of this particular sects beliefs from his signature. This will show where certain thoughts and beliefs are coming from.

https://www.beastsmark.com/deception

And you are right - it is works-based-law based righteousness doctrine.

He's not even supposed to have that link in his signature. It's blatant advertising, which the rules here prohibit. I done already told him that awhile back..

 

[Chris1975]

Experimenting with Font size.

James 2 [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

 

[Chris1975]

[SUP]Revelation 22 [SUP]14 [/SUP]Blessed are those who do His commandments,[SUP][g][/SUP] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.[/SUP]

 

[Chris1975]

Revelation 19 [SUP]7 [/SUP]Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”

 

[Grace777x70]

[SUP]Revelation 22 [SUP]14 [/SUP]Blessed are those who do His commandments,[SUP][g][/SUP] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.[/SUP]

Name every one of His commandments that this verse is referring to. Don't leave one out because if our eternal security is dependent on this - we need to know "every one".

What exactly are these commandments?

( of course in the New Covenant we have been told exactly what these commandments are in 1 John 3:23 )

 

[Chris1975]

[h=1] Matthew 12:50New King James Version (NKJV)
[/h] [SUP]50 [/SUP]For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”

 

[Chris1975]

Name every one of His commandments that this verse is referring to. Don't leave one out because if our eternal security is dependent on this - we need to know "every one".

What exactly are these commandments?

( of course in the New Covenant we have been told exactly what these commandments are in 1 John 3:23 )

Read the bible.

 

[Chris1975]

[h=1] Luke 6:46King James Version (KJV)
[/h] [SUP]46 [/SUP]And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

 

[Chris1975]

Matthew 7v21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Grace777x70]

Revelation 19 [SUP]7 [/SUP]Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”

How did Christ’s bride (the church) make herself ready? We accepted what Jesus did for us. That’s the only thing that makes us pure That’s why all the honor goes to Him, not to us.

We believed the gospel message of Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

Many people teach that the body of Christ will grow into unity and a holiness that is being represented here by being without “spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” This will never occur in the flesh. There will always be some members of the body who are not acting and believing right.

This is speaking of who we are in the Spirit. In our born-again spirits, we are now without “spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but...holy and without blemish.” This isn’t something we are moving toward. This is a present-tense possession of every true believer in their re-created spirits.