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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Been there done that. I escaped from that prison. and found Christ. Found hope. and found a God is truly a God of love, not a God who goes back on his word, and can not do what he promised.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I see a problem with following a particular church, You tend to be men followers, and Not God followers. You learn to trust your church and leaders. and get to the point you think they are right above all else. You even chose theologians which follow that church, and ignore the rest.
We all have this tendency, I had it for far to many years.
God is going to hold us accountable for what we believe, not for what some man taught us, If the men we follow are wrong, We do not get a get out of hell card, We will go to hell, not because that man taught us wrong, but because we do not test the spirit to see if he was truthful or not.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
think about what they do with scripture. is it any wonder they do it with everyday words also?
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Ariel82
Guest
You know some people build fences and other build bridges. Jesus is our bridge to God and His Holy presence.
The vitriol of many folks needs a reality check.
God judges folks. He calls us to state the truth and wash our hands of it.
If people would rather follow a lie than believe that salvation is NOT BY WORKS. It is their choice.
Ephesians 2
. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
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Ariel82
Guest
God doesn't send folks to hell for not testing the spirits....,they get sent to hell for not believing the Gospel and following Jesus and His Holy spirit but instead making fun of folks who do and boasting of how they follow such wiser men themselves.
What I don't understand is who is wiser than Jesus or do people not really believe in the Holy spirit ability to lead His children into God's truth?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am glad a few people did not wash their hands of me, and kept pushing when I kept pushing back, many times in anger.
what is different is this is a public chatroom. While I agree many will not change, they are too deeply involved in their system. I also believe when they post an idea, we should post a differing view, so people reading then get to chose.
as I said yesterday, Discussion is good, In reminds us of passages being brought up. Allows us to restudy the, and who knows, something we never heard of may be brought out which may sway our understanding, It has me on a few topics since I arrived here.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
That was my point, they did not believe the gospel. because they trusted the men and did not test the spirit.
as for scripture, I like what John said,
1 John 2:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. [SUP]27[/SUP]But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
John loved the term eternal life. I wonder why it scares so many people
Unfortunately here is an example of taking a scripture out of it's context to create a view that we have been taught in church teachings.
The context of Matthew 7:21 is this in verse 15. This is talking about false prophets - not born-again believers in Christ sealed with the Holy Spirit. We can be duped by these false prophets but "they" are not "us".
Get this wrong and we create a fear based religion that nullifies the very grace of God in Chrsit from operating like it was meant to.
Matthew 7:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Notice that they are "not sheep" but are really wolves.
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Ariel82
Guest
It's true. Some topics discussed on CC I have placed in my "ask God when I get to heaven" box.
This however isn't one of them.
Works salvation is a chain of lies wrought by Satan to enslave people. You find it in all the major religions. The law of karma states you do good in order to have good given...you avoid bad to avoid bad happening to you.
Like all Satan's lies, it's a mixture of truth and dung. God has setup the world to have consequences. Its like the law of gravity...you drop something and it falls to the ground.
However the gospel of grace is like the laws of aerodynamics.,,ir allows us to fly upon wings of eagles. God lifts us up.he cleanse us and allows us to be called His children by the redeeming blood of Christ. If you have the Holy Spirit, it should be easy to find Bible verses that state how Jesus has overcome this world. Greater is He who is in me than he who is in this world. Praise God for His Holy spirit.
God created us to do good works. However it's not the good works that save us, it's Jesus.
If you can't understand or say amen to that simple underlined statement, then you need to talk to God and not me.
At the end it will be Jesus who judges. We are just called to warn people before they walk into a ditch.
No Grace.
We understand it very well.
Maybe you missed the important part...
Not those who cry Lord,Lord,
But THOSE WHO DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.
Those who do the WILL OF THE FATHER will make it to be with God forever.
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Ariel82
Guest
Some folks use fear to keep themselves from sinning because they have a hard time actually hearing the Holy spirit and to admit they can't hear or understand God's answers to their prayers terrifies them.
Much is fake bravery and worldly wisdom to mask a fear that they may not really be God's child.
I always wonder how to respond because of they don't believe the Gospel and have the Holy spirit, their fear is justified. They need to hear and believe the True gospel message.
However, if they do really believe then we need to show them God's promises and his agape love for us as found in scripture.
.it really depends on who we are talking to and what GOD places on our heart to speak.
The problem with forums is people assume everything said is directed towards them. Many people are really self centered and get jealous if the conversation doesn't focus on them and their words,
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I hear ya, some things I may never know, until I ask God himself.
Sadly, many would say agree with your underlined statement, when you can tell by things they say they do not, Satan has duped them and they can't even see it
I love this! I get to preach Christ again! Thank you!
What is the will of the Father?
John 6:40 (NASB)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world
Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.
Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
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Ariel82
Guest
I have found at least 7 things about doing the will of God on this earth now that we are in Christ.
1) That we have eternal life in Christ - John 6:40
2) That we be filled with the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:16-21
3) That we live a pure, disciplined lifestyle - 1 Thess 4:3-4 ( we live out that holiness that is already in us in our new man ..created in Christ in righteousness and holiness )
4) That we are rejoicing in the Lord, praying without ceasing, and grateful - 1 Thess 5:16-18
5) That we be a law-abiding citizen - 1 Peter 2:13-16
6) That we believe and influence others to believe - 2 Peter 3:9
7) That we commit ourselves to God and other believers - 2 Cor 8:5
According to the works-based salvationists...if someone is not joyful one day or didn't pray for a couple of days...or was not grateful for a day or so and they died..then they would go to hell because they didn't do " the will of God"..( see #4 above )....
How foolish this nonsense is when we do not factor in the "will of the Father" for salvation in being with the Lord when we die. If we do not factor in the completed work of Christ for our salvation then we will come up with all kinds of man-made "works" we must do to "help" Jesus with our salvation.
What about #5 above...if you speed and crash your car and die..you go to hell because you were not doing " the will of God"...again the complete foolishness of people that say..not doing the will of God are not saved without factoring in just what is the "will of the Father" for salvation .
The "doing of the will of God" for salvation is to believe on Christ and it is by grace through faith only - no works. Eph 2:8-9
The saint who rests in Christ and in His finished work is the will of God and what appears to be his free choices are actually God's will for him. It's loving God because you know His love for you, doing what is inside of you under His influence. Phil 2:13
1) That we have eternal life in Christ - John 6:40
2) That we be filled with the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:16-21
3) That we live a pure, disciplined lifestyle - 1 Thess 4:3-4 ( we live out that holiness that is already in us in our new man ..created in Christ in righteousness and holiness )
4) That we are rejoicing in the Lord, praying without ceasing, and grateful - 1 Thess 5:16-18
5) That we be a law-abiding citizen - 1 Peter 2:13-16
6) That we believe and influence others to believe - 2 Peter 3:9
7) That we commit ourselves to God and other believers - 2 Cor 8:5
According to the works-based salvationists...if someone is not joyful one day or didn't pray for a couple of days...or was not grateful for a day or so and they died..then they would go to hell because they didn't do " the will of God"..( see #4 above )....
How foolish this nonsense is when we do not factor in the "will of the Father" for salvation in being with the Lord when we die. If we do not factor in the completed work of Christ for our salvation then we will come up with all kinds of man-made "works" we must do to "help" Jesus with our salvation.
What about #5 above...if you speed and crash your car and die..you go to hell because you were not doing " the will of God"...again the complete foolishness of people that say..not doing the will of God are not saved without factoring in just what is the "will of the Father" for salvation .
The "doing of the will of God" for salvation is to believe on Christ and it is by grace through faith only - no works. Eph 2:8-9
The saint who rests in Christ and in His finished work is the will of God and what appears to be his free choices are actually God's will for him. It's loving God because you know His love for you, doing what is inside of you under His influence. Phil 2:13
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
and what is the will of the father?
John 6 : 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
the will of the father seems to be the very thing you fight against, eternal life and security to all who come to Jesus in Faith.
as he said, come to me all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest,
there is no no rest in a false hope not secure in Christ, only hard work,
Folks will also confuse God's will for us to BECOME saved (John 6:40) with God's will for us AFTER we have been saved through faith (1 Thessalonians 5:12-18).
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I agree, and many do not like to be told they are wrong. You will see them blame shift say something wich detracts from what is being discussed or outright anger. which is sad.
I have people in here who outright say a person who denys jesus, has a hate for everything christian, Goes to war against them, and if we could look inside, see that they honestly and truly Hate the term God and deny his very existence, are not saved, I agree with them, what separates us is they think he lost salvation, I think he was never saved to begin with.
the end result however is the same, so not really worth fighting over,
but most, who even say they just believe a person can lose faith, if you question them, you will see works through and through, and although they deny works, its all they talk about..
those are the dangerous ones.