E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
yep let's blame our sin on others, and not on the true sinner, ourselves.
No no one can cause you to stumble, not Satan, not your bf or gf, not anyone, but yourself,
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
yep let's blame our sin on others, and not on the true sinner, ourselves.
No no one can cause you to stumble, not Satan, not your bf or gf, not anyone, but yourself,
Fran,
MMD has given you an extraordinarily clear explanation of the clear difference between salvation by grace through faith and false works-based teaching.
I was also fascinated to read that you say that Paul uses the terms justification and sanctification interchangeably.
This is most certainly a false impression.
No idea why you would think that except that you might have been really fuzzy on what they meant in the first place.
And just that you know I absolutely believe in doing good works just in the way the Eph 2:8-10 illuminates:
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
The works we do as born-again believers can never save us, nor maintain our salvation vs 8-9 explains why.
Rather the works that we do are motivated by our love relationship with God - there is no contractual obligation.
Think 1 John 4:19 "19 We love Him[a]because He first loved us."
MMD has given you an extraordinarily clear explanation of the clear difference between salvation by grace through faith and false works-based teaching.
I was also fascinated to read that you say that Paul uses the terms justification and sanctification interchangeably.
This is most certainly a false impression.
No idea why you would think that except that you might have been really fuzzy on what they meant in the first place.
And just that you know I absolutely believe in doing good works just in the way the Eph 2:8-10 illuminates:
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
The works we do as born-again believers can never save us, nor maintain our salvation vs 8-9 explains why.
Rather the works that we do are motivated by our love relationship with God - there is no contractual obligation.
Think 1 John 4:19 "19 We love Him[a]because He first loved us."
Really. So Nineveh repented of the unbelief in God, and not for their horrendous sin and behaviour
they were participating in?
What kind of teaching have you been listening to?
The baptism of John for the repentance of sins, was just about belief?
I suggest you actually start thinking about why people are doomed to hell and why
death come into the world. And it is not about belief.
I wonder how much honesty is being expressed in some positions
1. We do good works because love is at work in our hearts. No love, no faith
2. Our goal is a righteous walk, yet sins are sometimes difficult to resolve because they
are embedded in our personal histories.
Now if one says, no fruit does not have to show ever to be saved, and though maybe
sometime we will have a righteous walk, it is up to Jesus to bring it about.
Now if my theology means the statement above can be made, what is the motivation
of believers and their real foundation. Jesus implies this passive response is the same
as actual unbelief.
Now I assume everyone here is desiring to follow Jesus and is positively Praise the Lord
for the love in their hearts, sealed in the Holy Spirit.
So why is there any dispute about either loving from our hearts and walking righteously?
This is my question, because my conclusion to saying no love in your heart a nice to have,
and walking righteously, pipe dream of sinless perfection, is do you know Jesus.
And I read testimony after testimony of people who started going to worldly church, who
lived like the world, yet never repented of their sins or commited to walk like Jesus or
follow Him. So they are simply not believers and not filled with the Holy Spirit.
We are not on a jolly to get to heaven, with success and all the worldly benefits all wrapped
into one. That is pure deception.
1. We do good works because love is at work in our hearts. No love, no faith
2. Our goal is a righteous walk, yet sins are sometimes difficult to resolve because they
are embedded in our personal histories.
Now if one says, no fruit does not have to show ever to be saved, and though maybe
sometime we will have a righteous walk, it is up to Jesus to bring it about.
Now if my theology means the statement above can be made, what is the motivation
of believers and their real foundation. Jesus implies this passive response is the same
as actual unbelief.
Now I assume everyone here is desiring to follow Jesus and is positively Praise the Lord
for the love in their hearts, sealed in the Holy Spirit.
So why is there any dispute about either loving from our hearts and walking righteously?
This is my question, because my conclusion to saying no love in your heart a nice to have,
and walking righteously, pipe dream of sinless perfection, is do you know Jesus.
And I read testimony after testimony of people who started going to worldly church, who
lived like the world, yet never repented of their sins or commited to walk like Jesus or
follow Him. So they are simply not believers and not filled with the Holy Spirit.
We are not on a jolly to get to heaven, with success and all the worldly benefits all wrapped
into one. That is pure deception.
Last edited:
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
This just goes to show just how out of touch religion has made people. Taking their eyes off God and placing it on self. So strong is this delusion that we can not even think properly
Sin is caused by a lack of faith in God. When one repents of sin, they are saying yes God, I chose to trust self and Not God. I did it the worlds way not your way, because I did not trust you.
When we change, and start to trust God, our sin issue is dealt with. Trying to deal with our sin issue first is the wrong way. It is impossible. it is a offense to a perfect and righteous God.
The gospel says we can not take care of our sin, We need God. Thus when people say they need to take care of sin first. They reject and dicrtedit6 Gods. Saying TYHEY can do it, they do0 not need Gods help.
Religion is satans greatest victory. It is so sad the many who have fallen for it. .
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
the issue is people have a watered down version of what sin is..
The religious person talks the walk, but does not walk the walk. Although they think they do.
They focus on grave sins, An adulterer and m,underwear can not get to heaven, yet they fail to see. One of the greatest men of God in the OT was an adulterer and murderer.
If we want healing, if we want to experience true4 love, if we want to PRACTICE true love, we have to first start puffing ourselves up. And Start tearing ourselves S down. Because until you have become the tax collector. You will never find healing or love, Maybe religion? But religion will not heal you. Or teach you how to love, just ask Israel how well that did them.
By Ray Pritchard on May 17, 2017 12:11 am
A cartoon from the Wall Street Journal shows a man walking up a set of stairs toward the gate of heaven. Above the gate is a sign with two words: “No Deals.” This time the Journal got it absolutely right. God makes no deals when it comes to heaven. You either enter by way of the cross of Christ or you don’t enter at all.
A cartoon from the Wall Street Journal shows a man walking up a set of stairs toward the gate of heaven. Above the gate is a sign with two words: “No Deals.” This time the Journal got it absolutely right. God makes no deals when it comes to heaven. You either enter by way of the cross of Christ or you don’t enter at all.
A
Ariel82
Guest
I have to say building a straw man on top of my words and then condemning this straw man
is not a good approach.
Sin is our problem, and the root is our rebellion against God. To ignore this rebellion and the
brokenness to restore it is the failure here. The trick is to turn the language into general things
and then solve it generally at a distance, as if this is talking with God.
There is no such thing as big sins, sin is sin, and being specific matters.
So I reject the attempted scorn as blindness and denial of the obvious.
We need Christ, we need the cross, and through Gods healing we can walk in purity
and holiness. Now in theory this is what is being said, but they need to exclude the
labelled group, when in truth they are excluding themselves.
Two principles
1 love from the heart given by Christ
2 a righteous walk empowered by the Holy Spirit
You know something is wrong when these two are not agreed with
is not a good approach.
Sin is our problem, and the root is our rebellion against God. To ignore this rebellion and the
brokenness to restore it is the failure here. The trick is to turn the language into general things
and then solve it generally at a distance, as if this is talking with God.
There is no such thing as big sins, sin is sin, and being specific matters.
So I reject the attempted scorn as blindness and denial of the obvious.
We need Christ, we need the cross, and through Gods healing we can walk in purity
and holiness. Now in theory this is what is being said, but they need to exclude the
labelled group, when in truth they are excluding themselves.
Two principles
1 love from the heart given by Christ
2 a righteous walk empowered by the Holy Spirit
You know something is wrong when these two are not agreed with
A watered down version of sin, is hyper legalistic speak no one in scripture pleased God,
except many did. But when you believe something stronger than Gods word, you will just
ignore the Lord.
And do you know why people are going to hell? Because they ignore God.
Do you know how easy it is to ignore God?
The simplest thing in the world. Jesus says ..... Oh no he did not mean that to us,
He meant only as sarcasm to show how big a failure we are. Once you ignore God
like this you make your own faith, change words, create excuses for failure, condemn
enemies for invented crimes and feel you are chosen with no possibility of rejection.
The world lives like this, and the only way we know Jesus has saved us is we love from the
heart.
except many did. But when you believe something stronger than Gods word, you will just
ignore the Lord.
And do you know why people are going to hell? Because they ignore God.
Do you know how easy it is to ignore God?
The simplest thing in the world. Jesus says ..... Oh no he did not mean that to us,
He meant only as sarcasm to show how big a failure we are. Once you ignore God
like this you make your own faith, change words, create excuses for failure, condemn
enemies for invented crimes and feel you are chosen with no possibility of rejection.
The world lives like this, and the only way we know Jesus has saved us is we love from the
heart.
By the way, no matter what I write for some I am just evil and lost
so everything will be spun a different way.
I wonder if this dishonesty is driven by hurt or hatred, anger or bitterness.
It makes no sense to me for Spirit filled believers to behave like this, yet they will,
so I ask why?
My only answer is my words speak too close to undermining their position so any
junk is fine, because it expresses the emotion felt before the facts are found.
The problem is the facts do not exist, so it is just an empty place with no resolution.
And that is the place outside of Christ when His words are ignored.
so everything will be spun a different way.
I wonder if this dishonesty is driven by hurt or hatred, anger or bitterness.
It makes no sense to me for Spirit filled believers to behave like this, yet they will,
so I ask why?
My only answer is my words speak too close to undermining their position so any
junk is fine, because it expresses the emotion felt before the facts are found.
The problem is the facts do not exist, so it is just an empty place with no resolution.
And that is the place outside of Christ when His words are ignored.
Last edited:
I for one do not think you are evil and lost. I do think you are dangerously self-deceived into thinking you do not sin. because you do. so do I. so does every other person on earth. most of us are TRUTHFUL and admit it. you refuse to do so.
I just choose to live in reality. hope one day you do also.
A
Ariel82
Guest
How did people please God, PeterJens?
Who were they?
Only scriptures I have seen is those who have FAITH in CHRIST their Savior were pleasing to God.
Everyone else didn't measure up.
Who were they?
Only scriptures I have seen is those who have FAITH in CHRIST their Savior were pleasing to God.
Everyone else didn't measure up.
A
Ariel82
Guest
"Water down sin" is a term used to describe folks who don't feel convicted by their sins because their bar of what is and isn't sin is not the same as God's...
Example: Pharisees water down sin by defining adultery as just the physical act...but Jesus defines it as lusting after someone who is married in your heart.
A true definition of sin is falling short of the glory of God.
Water down version is a list of things folks "don't do"
However it is a sin to know good and not do it.
So God's definition is higher than most people will admit.
However I would rather focus on what God wants us to do, than sin and trust God to convict and correct me as needed when I wander off the path.
Example: Pharisees water down sin by defining adultery as just the physical act...but Jesus defines it as lusting after someone who is married in your heart.
A true definition of sin is falling short of the glory of God.
Water down version is a list of things folks "don't do"
However it is a sin to know good and not do it.
So God's definition is higher than most people will admit.
However I would rather focus on what God wants us to do, than sin and trust God to convict and correct me as needed when I wander off the path.
Enoch, Abraham, Job, David, Elijah are but a few who pleased God.
They did not know Christ like we do, yet sounds like you are condemning them.
Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ, so too much simplistic judgementalism does not work.
God has always been just and gracious but not blind
i'm not misquoting anything. anyone who refuse to admit ( present tense ) that they are not sinless, then that person is a lair.
while it should be every believer's goal not to sin, we all fall short of that goal. you too. as I said, most of us admit. most of us are truthful. hopefully, one day you will speak truth about sin. not pie-in the sky- I do no wrong non-sense.
while it should be every believer's goal not to sin, we all fall short of that goal. you too. as I said, most of us admit. most of us are truthful. hopefully, one day you will speak truth about sin. not pie-in the sky- I do no wrong non-sense.
A
Ariel82
Guest
Ummm....I might be slow....but PeterJens is NOT a sinless perfection straw man.,,,
Just sayin'