Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

Are you looking at the greek word pleroo EG? It's the wrong one if so.

 

[FranC]

Are you looking at the greek word pleroo EG? It's the wrong one if so.

I don't use the Greek.
I think we're having enough problems with the English.

Do you not agree with what I posted?

Do you think fulfill means to abolish?

Just read Mathew 5. No Greek necessary.

 

[BillG]

Yes. Many times.

I wish I had a dollar...

Stop changing your avatar.
It confuses me.

 

[BillG]

Stop changing your avatar.
It confuses me.

Mind you that's not difficult

 

[eternally-gratefull]

NO!
NOT to come to an end.

To teach, to instruct.
Jesus DID NOT come to abolish...

Isn't that easy to understand??

I just gave you the defenition according to the greek words used.

for the believer who was trained by the law. As far as paul tells us, It is come to an end, we are no longer under law but grace.

But to the non believer, they are still under law. the tutor has yet to fulfill its purpose.

Again, read gal 3.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

why are we no longer under a tutor (the law)

can you answer this? (Ps Paul gives us the answer earlier in chapter 3)

 

[FranC]

That's not her picture at 70 I doubt she will post a recent one of herself online...you know she is just poking at you right?

I doubt she really cares a whit for her physical appearance, but I could be wrong on that,

I care very much about my physical appearance.
So does my husband.

This one was taken one week ago.
With no make-up.

Imagine if I was wearing make-up!!

So. Whadaya think?

Hurry and save it because it's disappearing real soon.

Don't want the guys to lose their heads over me.

 

[stonesoffire]

G1096
γίνομαι
ginomai
ghin'-om-ahee
A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen" -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literally, figuratively, intensively, etc.): - arise be assembled, be (come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, be done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.
Total KJV occurrences: 672


This is the definition for that particular scripture where Jesus "fulfilled" every jot and tittle.

He the living Torah...the living sacrifice...

 

[FranC]

I just gave you the defenition according to the greek words used.

for the believer who was trained by the law. As far as paul tells us, It is come to an end, we are no longer under law but grace.

But to the non believer, they are still under law. the tutor has yet to fulfill its purpose.

Again, read gal 3.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

why are we no longer under a tutor (the law)

can you answer this? (Ps Paul gives us the answer earlier in chapter 3)

Well EG...

It's true.
We are no longer under THE LAW
but under GRACE

What does that mean?

That we are not to obey the moral Law?

 

[Ariel82]

Greek Concordance: πληρῶσαι (plērōsai) -- 4 Occurrences

Matthew 5:17 Greek Text Analysis

 

[FranC]

G1096
γίνομαι
ginomai
ghin'-om-ahee
A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen" -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literally, figuratively, intensively, etc.): - arise be assembled, be (come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, be done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.
Total KJV occurrences: 672


This is the definition for that particular scripture where Jesus "fulfilled" every jot and tittle.

He the living Torah...the living sacrifice...

Wow.
Very confusing.
Contradictory meanings.

Thankfully we have theologians to sort it all out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you looking at the greek word pleroo EG? It's the wrong one if so.

Matt 5: 17, Jesus said, I did not come to abolish but to fulfill

the greek word is pleroo, it is in the aorist active infinite form which means it continues to this day, and will infinately continue to be active for all eternity.

 

[BillG]

Really, we're to understand that the Holy Spirit is in us.
But since all three persons are equal, we can understand it as suits us.

When Jesus left and told us He would never leave us, He didn't mean that HE would be with us forever.
He said to wait in Jerusalem and the Holy Spirit would come. He said he would send us a comforter.

The Holy Spirit has the "job" of being the comforter. The convincer of our sins, our paraclete, who walks along our side.
But God is in us. This is Language and creates no theological problem.

As long as we don't understand it as Buddhists do -- which I don't believe anyone here does.

It just bothers me when one says that it's JESUS doing ALL THE WORK.

So, if it's Jesus doing ALL THE WORK, and we sin, Does This Mean Jesus Did a Bad Work?

You see. It can't all be on Jesus.
WE must share in the sanctifying process.
This is just a truth, not something I made up.
Anyone could Google SANCTIFICATION and find out what it means...

IT'S A COOPERATIVE EFFORT.
MAN MUST COOPERATE WITH GOD TO ACHIEVE HOLINESS.
God is NOT going to do all the work for us.

He already died on the cross, what more do we want?

This is why I call it cheap grace. It's CHEAP because it costs US nothing...
and instead...

Romans 12:1

No disrespect but I didn't ask for people to expand beyond my question and question what we interpret other people are saying outside of my question.

 

[Meggido]

You don't like fail?
Stumble is the same.
To trip, to fall.

It COULD mean sin, but check out the very next verse which would make it seem more serious than one sin:

2 Peter 1:5 11
"for in this way the entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be ABUNDANTLY SUPPLIED to you."
NASB

IOW, If you do not stumble, or fall, or fail, the entrance to the Kingdom WILL be available to you.

verse 12 tell us that we are TO PRACTICE the truths that Peter is giving us.

verses 5 and 6 tell us how diligent we are to be.


WHY ALL THESE WARNINGS IF WE'RE SAVED NO MATTER WHAT?
If eternal security were true, WHY would all these Writers give us so many warnings??

Verse 8 of 2 Peter gives you the proper context for Vs1-7...
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Verse 9 gives you the proper context for Vs 8-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; [SUP]11 [/SUP]for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

 

[FranC]

Stop changing your avatar.
It confuses me.

The girls here seem jealous Bill.

Ariel wanted to see a current picture of me.

This one was taken a week ago at the beach with my younger niece, she's 14. (not the one with autism).

Can't get any more recent than this....!

Of course, YOU Always knew I was pretty.

Now everyone knows it.

I hope the guys stay calm...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

G1096
γίνομαι
ginomai
ghin'-om-ahee
A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen" -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literally, figuratively, intensively, etc.): - arise be assembled, be (come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, be done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.
Total KJV occurrences: 672


This is the definition for that particular scripture where Jesus "fulfilled" every jot and tittle.

He the living Torah...the living sacrifice...

got a passage?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't use the Greek.
I think we're having enough problems with the English.

Do you not agree with what I posted?

Do you think fulfill means to abolish?

Just read Mathew 5. No Greek necessary.

The english is bad, thats why we need the greek, It is a more pure language,

I could not fathom reading the english bible and trying to understand parts without going to the greek

 

[Ariel82]

Colossians 2:14 ►
New International Version
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

New Living Translation
He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross.

English Standard Version
by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

Berean Study Bible
having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross!

Berean Literal Bible
having blotted out the handwriting in the decrees against us, which was adverse to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

New American Standard Bible
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

King James Bible
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

 

[BillG]

The girls here seem jealous Bill.

Ariel wanted to see a current picture of me.

This one was taken a week ago at the beach with my younger niece, she's 14. (not the one with autism).

Can't get any more recent than this....!

Of course, YOU Always knew I was pretty.

Now everyone knows it.

I hope the guys stay calm...

What beach were you at?

 

[FranC]

Verse 8 of 2 Peter gives you the proper context for Vs1-7...
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Verse 9 gives you the proper context for Vs 8-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; [SUP]11 [/SUP]for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

I agree!

So, read it again and tell me if you REALLY think it's speaking about sin?

It says that IF WE FOLLOW THESE things, we will never STUMBLE. (you said it means sin)

SO... WE NEVER SIN??????????????????

it's speaking about holding on to our faith so we don't lose it and our salvation...

 

[FranC]

What beach were you at?

Lido di Camaior.

West of Pisa and a bit North.
It's 20 minutes from home.
It has umbrellas, a restaurant, and all that stuff. You know how it is.
Beaches in Italy are private. But it's nice, I guess.

NOT like Jones Beach in New York.