Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull said:

I did not see this in her post.

I saw that we are not completely justified until the end, and we must justify ourselves. (you called it progressive justification, I call it legalistic justification, because it is a justification of self. also known as self righteousness (since the word justify also means righteous, same word in greek)

and those who call that sanctification (you and I and others) are in error.
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She may make those assertations in her other posts but in that one, she doesn't.

Truthfully I don't bother reading most of her posts. Sometimes it's decent and sometimes it's strawmen city.
 
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Ariel82 said:
She may make those assertations in her other posts but in that one, she doesn't.

Truthfully I don't bother reading most of her posts. Sometimes it's decent and sometimes it's strawmen city.
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Originally Posted by FranC

Well AMEN and Praise the Lord !!

There are two methods to express justification and sanctification.

Some churches teach Justification as the born again experience. Being declared just by God. We are now right with God.
Epesians 2:8

They then teach Progressive Justification as that continuing work that is in cooperation with God, to keep one saved throughout their life. God requires "works" from us, or whatever one would want to call them, and we must respond to God's requirements.
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could you please tell me how you can read the bolded part. and and continue to say she did not do this?
 
eternally-gratefull said:
could you please tell me how you can read the bolded part. and and continue to say she did not do this?
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You're right..,i didn't catch the hook that makes the statement a lie "keep one saved throughout their life"

Ongoing Sanctification is not to gain or maintain salvation but because we are saved and already children of God.
 
stonesoffire said:
There is no law in love. Love is a force. Power. It's the very nature of God Himself. Light is another description. God is love, light, truth, what else can we all think to describe God?

What we are is flesh. That's human nature that is under the influence of spirits of darkness. Only Light can penetrate the darkness for Light is greater. Light comes in...like the pneumatic force, thank you Mr. Nee. Breath! A new life...different than the one we are born into.

Light increases with understanding that eventually floods the whole being. This is the purpose of God on our inner man...flowing to the outer man. Whelmed by Holy Spirit.

A new generation of spiritual men and women. Under no law of control...but a new man. A race of beings that were not before on this earth...unless you think adam and eve was in the beginning. I am still kicking around that thought.

Something never seen before is what Jesus has brought down to man.

So do we want to live under dry dusty rules of a way of life that never satisfied? Or do we want to be filled with God Himself which results in our being like Him?

The choice is ours. But, it's always a bad choice not to choose life.
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You're talking about the Kingdom of God.
Many times I've wondered if Jesus didn't fail in His attempt to show us the Kingdom.

He meant to do exactly what you're describing above.

He meant to show us a new way to live. A new transformed man and how he is to behave.

But we have those here who fight that. They say they're saved and then come works.
But they will Always deny that works are necessary.

If we don't do the works of the Kingdom, who will?
If we want to create a "new" man, then the works are absolutely necessary.

I wonder how many here know what you're really talking about.
 
Meggido said:
What Law are you are you referring to? There is only one Law under the new covenant....

The Law of Love

The Holy Spirit will not show you how to follow the Law, that Law was already fulfilled.
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What does fulfilled mean?
 
I am with you Fran except for the words "we create".

We are just growing up into the kingdom. I keep saying to the Lord...why now Lord? Why not when I was young...but was young and stupid.

It's the fire...without the fire within...we are just embers.

I look around too...but was in the same religious rut. Not so now...catch it.
 
UnderGrace said:
Sorry honey, you still have it wrong, it is Christ within who works in US to will and to do His good pleasure. Phil 2:13

You need to understand the plan of salvation designed by God, what you espoused makes no sense ....I saw through the lies a long time ago...what is taking you so long?

And why are you hung up on your looks does that live up to the Sermon on the Mount. We all have to face we fall short of perfection.. we have cannot fix our own hearts it a sin to think we can ...it is called self - righteousness.
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So when we sin, it is Christ within who is unable to keep us from sinning?

Are you jealous of my good looks?
 
stonesoffire said:
I am with you Fran except for the words "we create".

We are just growing up into the kingdom. I keep saying to the Lord...why now Lord? Why not when I was young...but was young and stupid.

It's the fire...without the fire within...we are just embers.

I look around too...but was in the same religious rut. Not so now...catch it.
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Could you use the quote feature?
I can't remember what I said about creating...

wait.

OK. Found it. Yes. It's Language. WE do not create the New Man. He is created by God.
We do, however, have to be faithful to that new man.
We cannot abadon that new man.
We are free to walk out of the Kingdom whenever we want to.
Love is free.
God will not FORCE US TO LOVE HIM.

If one believes in eternal security, he must also believe that free will is not present after salvation.
And he must also believe that love for God is not Always a burning love,
Because when one DOES walk away, his love ends.

Does God still find joy in him?
Does God force him to stay?
Does God want true love or not?
If He does, he must let the abandoner abandon God.
 
Magenta said:
I am not surprised you believe you can succeed where you think He failed.
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The failure would not be on Jesus.
It would be on depending on persons such as yourself who do not even understand the Kingdom of God or how to be a part of it.
 
stonesoffire said:
I am with you Fran except for the words "we create".

We are just growing up into the kingdom. I keep saying to the Lord...why now Lord? Why not when I was young...but was young and stupid.

It's the fire...without the fire within...we are just embers.

I look around too...but was in the same religious rut. Not so now...catch it.
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Religion is for slaves.
Faith is for sons.
 
FranC said:
So when we sin, it is Christ within who is unable to keep us from sinning?

Are you jealous of my good looks?
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Just as a matter of interest why do you/us all think Christ is in us.

When did it start and what is the purpose?
 
FranC said:
Could you use the quote feature?
I can't remember what I said about creating...

wait.

OK. Found it. Yes. It's Language. WE do not create the New Man. He is created by God.
We do, however, have to be faithful to that new man.
We cannot abadon that new man.
We are free to walk out of the Kingdom whenever we want to.
Love is free.
God will not FORCE US TO LOVE HIM.

If one believes in eternal security, he must also believe that free will is not present after salvation.
And he must also believe that love for God is not Always a burning love,
Because when one DOES walk away, his love ends.

Does God still find joy in him?
Does God force him to stay?
Does God want true love or not?
If He does, he must let the abandoner abandon God.
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No one runs from true love.
 
BillG said:
Just as a matter of interest why do you/us all think Christ is in us.

When did it start and what is the purpose?
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Really, we're to understand that the Holy Spirit is in us.
But since all three persons are equal, we can understand it as suits us.

When Jesus left and told us He would never leave us, He didn't mean that HE would be with us forever.
He said to wait in Jerusalem and the Holy Spirit would come. He said he would send us a comforter.

The Holy Spirit has the "job" of being the comforter. The convincer of our sins, our paraclete, who walks along our side.
But God is in us. This is Language and creates no theological problem.

As long as we don't understand it as Buddhists do -- which I don't believe anyone here does.

It just bothers me when one says that it's JESUS doing ALL THE WORK.

So, if it's Jesus doing ALL THE WORK, and we sin, Does This Mean Jesus Did a Bad Work?

You see. It can't all be on Jesus.
WE must share in the sanctifying process.
This is just a truth, not something I made up.
Anyone could Google SANCTIFICATION and find out what it means...

IT'S A COOPERATIVE EFFORT.
MAN MUST COOPERATE WITH GOD TO ACHIEVE HOLINESS.
God is NOT going to do all the work for us.

He already died on the cross, what more do we want?

This is why I call it cheap grace. It's CHEAP because it costs US nothing...
and instead...

Romans 12:1
 
stonesoffire said:
No one runs from true love.
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Yes. I know what you're saying.
John 6:68

But I know persons that have. For different resons. But then I have to hear they were never saved to begin with. They sure seemed saved.

How do you explain 2 Peter 2:20-22

How do you explain Hebrews 6:4-6

How do you explain all the exhortations in the N.T. to HOLD FAST, CONTINUE IN, IF, IF, IF we do ...

I'll get quotes if you need them, but it's getting late here...

One...

2 Peter 1:5-10

IF you do these things, you will never FAIL.

This means that FAILING is possible...
 
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