Not By Works

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JohnW34 said:
Amen.

"also would you disagree that we can KNOW we are His?"

Over time, we know we are being called and transformed. But I always sense my fragility and my need, so I do not want to end in arrogance, presumption or certainty.

Some feel until the Lord speaks to them, personally they are not sure it is real.
But Jesus spoke to us all in scripture, but we easily dismiss the quiet small voice of the Holy Spirit, and want the sky lit up and the trumpets blast. But then we like the dramatic.

Zacharia is like a lot of us

Luke 1:18
Zechariah asked the angel, "How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years."

If you listen to the visits to the 3rd heaven, and talking to the prophets etc. I have seen nothing.
So I like the reassurance I have and the foundation God has built in me, Amen.
Click to expand...

Romans 8:16
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Well in your own words you state the elect are saved forever from the beginning of time

That is what those who hold to eternal security, OSAS, saved forever believe also

So you tell me do you believe in OSAS or not?
what would I call you? I do not call people by doctrines or theologies I think that’s a dangerous thing to do. I just call out what they claim they believe
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So I did not claim to be OSAS then. Sounds good to me :)
 
JohnW34 said:
Not by works but by sin they cry ............

Not by works but by cleansing and purity that comes through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour they cry ............

If we are not cleansed then how can we ever be pure and holy, only sin remains, but then there is no love and communion with God and we have sacrificed the only relationship in the world that could save us.


As normal without specifics, the label is unhelpful. Many denominations would agree with the statement above.
But maybe this group here are very far away from the central protestant theological consensus.
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Sanctification is positional first.......you seem to be missing the understanding also regarding the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.
 
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OneOfHis said:
I feel the same weakness and NEED for God's mercy..... I just have been comforted with assurance that I am indeed His.

This has helped my walk in many ways....


I hope I don't come off as long winded here, but I actually struggled with assurance.... to a point there was actual dread....

I could cry over a fleeting thought but in the same day feel as if any hope I had depended on ... myself...

I would justify this as "it's not my actions but God's works in me....."

but still looking to my efforts opposed to the finished work of Christ.....

There was a point I was a full blown sinless perfectionist...

If I didn't study more of the time I was awake than everything else put together I felt I was taking God for granted and living in sin and doomed to hell for being lazy when I could do more....

God delivered me from this fear and what started as 15 hour study sessions with no assurance transformed into an ongoing daily walk with my Father.... He is there when I am being lead and He is there when I need to be corrected.... I learned more in the next few months than all the read throughs of the bible in years of constant study.... I am not suggesting His word hasn't opened up to you..... but I believe assurance is a fruitful thing which can help our love for Him and gratitude and our ability to speak of the hope we have in Christ...
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Thank you dear brother, that is truly stirring.
And I agree assurance is key, knowing you are His and He is yours. The interplay with our strengths and weaknesses is different from individual to individual. Take apostle Peter swayed by the circumcision group and Paul standing firm in grace and freedom.

Patience, endurance, faithfulness are key gifts of the Spirit, and time helps mold us into Children of God.
In a bible study group we looked at Jesus saying we would get 100 times reward and persecutions.

Now one lady in the group who worries a lot, needed to have persecutions put into context, of standing firm
for Christ despite opposition, not being martyred for the cause after torture, though some have been called
to this, it is unusual. And whatever comes, the Lord helps with that step every time.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Then you not osas and everything I have said is true

Sounds good to me. Good to know I have been covet about you all along
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You have been correct? Odd, you said I claimed to be OSAS, when I had not.
That is the strangest logical conclusion I have come across. Are you addicted to being right
or appearing to be, even when you are not and cannot admit it? lol :)
 
JohnW34 said:
Thank you dear brother, that is truly stirring.
And I agree assurance is key, knowing you are His and He is yours. The interplay with our strengths and weaknesses is different from individual to individual. Take apostle Peter swayed by the circumcision group and Paul standing firm in grace and freedom.

Patience, endurance, faithfulness are key gifts of the Spirit, and time helps mold us into Children of God.
In a bible study group we looked at Jesus saying we would get 100 times reward and persecutions.

Now one lady in the group who worries a lot, needed to have persecutions put into context, of standing firm
for Christ despite opposition, not being martyred for the cause after torture, though some have been called
to this, it is unusual. And whatever comes, the Lord helps with that step every time.
Click to expand...


It feels like we are in agreement despite our earlier...... somewhat less concise discussion.😁


We both understand in Christ.... the body of Christ (the church) there is wheat.... and there are tares among the wheat....


You would agree both peter and paul were equally saved even if they were not equally correct in certain areas or even if peter made the .... choice to deny Jesus multiple times...

right?

(sorry for so many questions... many of us have been here for so long and been falsely accused or dealt with less than honest people... I personally see this as a lovely place for e-fellowship and worship and just talking about God who we love so much... It is nice to find brothers and sisters who have been shown the same things we have learned and its also nice to know certain beliefs that can show a lot about where someone is currently in their understanding)
 
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JohnW34 said:
You have been correct? Odd, you said I claimed to be OSAS, when I had not.
That is the strangest logical conclusion I have come across. Are you addicted to being right
or appearing to be, even when you are not and cannot admit it? lol :)
Click to expand...
Actually you did (not in so many words) see above..
osas simply means once saved always saved

I am not arguing a doctrine but a position


No I am not addicted. I am just sick of people who like to play games
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Actually you did (not in so many words) see above..
osas simply means once saved always saved

I am not arguing a doctrine but a position


No I am not addicted. I am just sick of people who like to play games
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I believe he believes in the most literal definition of eternal security.

We may but heads at some places but from his answers he does seem to believe that children of God, are saved indeed and he does seem to understand the level of our spiritual maturity is not tied to what keeps us saved...

though I may be wrong....



maybe he just doesnt like the labels🤣

I personally prefer "eternal security" but either way I know that God doesn't lose or fail and if He says we can know we have eternal life

i believe Him

if He said to be confident He will continue in us

I won't doubt
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Actually you did (not in so many words) see above..
osas simply means once saved always saved

I am not arguing a doctrine but a position


No I am not addicted. I am just sick of people who like to play games
Click to expand...

As you are correct about me what election position do you think I hold?
Surely with your knowledge of theology I must fit into one of your boxes?
After you have answered I will check to see if I agree :)
 
OneOfHis said:
I believe he believes in the most literal definition of eternal security.

We may but heads at some places but from his answers he does seem to believe that children of God, are saved indeed and he does seem to understand the level of our spiritual maturity is not tied to what keeps us saved...

though I may be wrong....



maybe he just doesnt like the labels🤣

I personally prefer "eternal security" but either way I know that God doesn't lose or fail and if He says we can know we have eternal life

i believe Him

if He said to be confident He will continue in us

I won't doubt
Click to expand...
He might. I am not sure
my whole beef with him is his puffing up and approval of PS. Who continually and unmercifully attacks us. It’s like he does not understand. If he is eternally security believer. Than PS attacks him also
 
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JohnW34 said:
As you are correct about me what election position do you think I hold?
Surely with your knowledge of theology I must fit into one of your boxes?
After you have answered I will check to see if I agree :)
Click to expand...
Opps I need an adjudicator to hold my answer else I change it to match or not match the answer, lol.
 
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