Welcome to the forum!Being obedient is to love.
Its true! If you LOVE your neighbor you will treat them accordingly. You will treat them well, like YOU would want to be treated.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Its true! If you LOVE your neighbor you will treat them accordingly. You will treat them well, like YOU would want to be treated.
Are you suggesting that only those who will [futurely] experience the tribulation period [7 yrs leading up to His Second Coming to the earth] are the ONLY ones who will ever be "refined" (and thus "Elect")??
I would say to that idea ^ , WE ("the Church which is His body"--ALL those "saved" "in this present age [singular]" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN]) are NOT waiting for that future "7-yr period" IN ORDER TO BE "refined" [there WILL BE that future "7-yr period" existing on the earth, but I think you are misunderstanding its PURPOSE]. If that were the case (that its purpose is "in order to be refined" [re: the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY/us]), then think how many "saints" since the first century will have missed out on that opportunity!(um, no.)
No, I am not. God's Elect have been being refined throughout the centuries. And none of them "escaped" beheading or torture or persecution; those things which proved them and refined them.
It's the modern belief that Jesus is coming to steal His pets away in a secret rapture so they won't be harmed by antichrist, that I am standing against.
And the Body of Christ, the Church is not all "saved" people by any means. Those who will be "united" to Him, His "co-heirs" are those few that traveled the "narrow Way" and proved themselves worthy in this life, being obedient to what God gave them.
Being obedient is to love.
.....obedient to Truth......not Pharisees that want to put me under "works" for salvation.
Are you are one of the folks He has given that authority to forgive sins?
And I've actually done a teaching on "Context" !
You should have done a "learning" first.
Traditional or not, Jesus is God.
(also, we are saved by grace through faith and kept by the power of God)
This sounds like something a Pharisee would say...... the "works" are the narrow way.
When, the Truth is that the "works" of Yeshua/Jesus is The Narrow Way. He did the "works" of salvation for us with His Blood and Body.
The "works" we do now are for the Kingdom of God, NOT for salvation.
Cite scriptures to prove "metanoia" means to "turn away from sin" or you are coming to the thinking that a turning away is a "result" of metanoia. This watering down of the modern definition of "turning away from sin" leads to some heretical views of salvation by works.I actually responded quite a while back on "metanoia" which states specifically that one must "turn away from sin."
Even a passing interest in the Biblical Greek will reveal that. And even more telling is the usage of "metanoia" in the New Testament.
The watered down modern definition in no way fits the way Jesus uses "repent" in Luke 13 or to the churches in Revelation 2 & 3. Jesus is warning those who have been "saved" that unless they turn from their sins, they will perish.
It really is that simple.
Except that the Scripture proves otherwise.
I think a Pharisee would say, "Blasphemy!! Yeshua/Jesus is calling Himself God!"
It is funny how I am constantly accused of saying we must "work" for salvation. WE DON'T!
It is to attain the promises of Rev 2 & 3, for which we must be proven worthy, by our Repentance (actually turning away from sin as the word means in the Biblical Greek), Obedience (which the Word says we must be), and remaining Faithful til the end.
The modern ear-tickling message has sadly sunk deep into the churches and has led the great bulk of church-goers astray.
Being obedient is to love.
Well, I agree..... sort of.
It is definitely an outward demonstration of love.
But to love is to want the best for another to the point of sacrifice.
For a parent to child, this does not involve obedience to a childs demands.
Like God to us... sometimes we don't get what we want and that's still Him showing love by giving us what we need.... (even during harsh lessons or chastening as His born again and saved children)
He being perfect... only gives righteous and just and holy commands to us...
for Him to not be sad and for us to be most useful to His purpose... yes to obey is to show outwardly, love for Him or anyone else.
(Though we are not saved by how much we show we love Him... we ought to do our best to show His love working in us shine outward)
Again, for the upteenth time... we DO NOT work for salvation. We must Repent, as Jesus defined Repent to the churches in Rev 2 & 3, and Overcome, if we are to inherit the promises of God.
Can you really ignore almost the entire New Testament?
And THIS ^ is what the subject under the heading of "predestination" ("predestined"/"predestinated") falls under. Those who have the "beginning" (as you put it), also have the "SURE/CERTAIN END" (of it) also. This is what is being referred to in the places this word is mentioned (and applies to "the Church which is His body"--all believers "in this present age") [see also Eph2:5 - "even being dead in the trespasses, did make us to live together with the Christ, (by grace ye are having been saved [perfect participle],)"]
As I said in a different post, it is not the same thing when saying "the churchES" (as in Rev2-3) as it is to say "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (these are not equivalents!) I believe this is part of your misunderstanding: equating these terms.
Disagree, see the top of this post again
I think a Pharisee would say, "Blasphemy!! Yeshua/Jesus is calling Himself God!"
For those who are not that familiar with the Scriptures they never hear from their "pastor" ...
79 times in the Gospels Jesus refers to Himself as the "Son of Man"
5 times He refers to Himself as the "Son of God"
47 times He is called by others the "Son of God", or "God's Son"
5 times He is referred to as the Son begotten of God, or "begotten of the Father"
4 times God, Himself, speaks from heaven and declares Jesus to be His Son
0 times does Jesus refer to Himself as God
And 4 times Jesus refers to the One He calls "My God." Oh, yes, Jesus has a God! (Paul affirms this several times in his letters as well. )
And before I am hounded with "I and My Father are One", (a verse which wouldn't negate hundreds of other passages anyway), I would encourage you to read John 17:20-23 and 1Cor 15:20-28, for they speak of the relationship between the Father and the Son, and how God's Elect will as well, be "One" with Christ as He is "One" with God.
God's Wisdom and Understanding to all.
EDIT:
Disagree, see the top of this post again [my previous post] ("all those 'having been saved [perfect participle ]' 'in this present age [singular]'")
Disagree, see the top of this post again [my previous post] ("all those 'having been saved [perfect participle
]' 'in this present age [singular]'")
Umm, are you not going to cite specific bible verses? Are you not coming to your own understanding?
Not a very impressive presentation of citing how many times they are used. That would be very easy. Jesus claims the Great " I am".
And I think we agree here. The Church is by no means the same as the churches. Many make that mistake, and assume that all in the churches who have been "saved" are part of the Church, the Body of Christ. By no means.
Those in the churches may have been "saved." But those in THE Church, will be those who have "overcome" and "walked worthy."
Now, Jesus' Word in Rev 2 & 3 is to the churches throughout the centuries, warning them/us, that if we don not "repent" (actually turn away from sin) we will miss out on being a part of THE Church which will receive the promises of Rev 2 & 3 and inherit Creation .
Did a teaching on this as well - Man's Inheritance of Creation
You're quite amusing sir.
I'd have to quote almost the entire New Testament!
Have you a copy?
Sorry you are not impressed with what the Bible says.
And you know what... the Elect in Eternity will also be able to say to the nations, as does the Man Jesus... "I Am."
(here come the accusations of heresy!!!)
