Not By Works

[limmuwd]

John 14:24
24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

Nope we cant deny it but do you deny that Jesus said "A new commamdent I GIVE TO YOU?

Before I answer your response then tell me what are your thoughts concerning who had the authority to forgive sins?

You are denying what Jesus said. But I'll you that between you & Him.

The Father has authority to forgive sins. He gave that authority to His Son Jesus. And Jesus gives that as well to those He chooses.

 

[limmuwd]

I believe verse 12 should be read in its context alongside verse 14 (of previous chpt/set-up), which says,

"and the greater part of the brethren in the Lord, having confidence [/having been convinced] by my bonds, are more abundantly bold -- fearlessly to speak the word." - Phil1:14

Now (in effect), YOU [/Philippians]... you (who may not be as convincedly-bold as the others!) "work out [outwardly, so to speak] YOUR OWN salvation [the salvation you possess] with fear and trembling [do it afraid! if you have to ]" … this is an exhortation to those believers... in the context of Paul's being imprisoned... that they don't need him/his presence! They can strap on their own boots and get at it, even if it has to be "WITH FEAR and trembling" (and considering why they would even BE fearful in these/such circumstances, that they were in/experiencing! )

OK. So we agree.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

OK. So we agree.

Well, *I* am not saying "in order to OBTAIN salvation [/eternal life]"... but that they HAVE IT and now (under these circumstances of duress) are being exhorted to work it outwardly despite any fears they are experiencing. So, if you are saying that (and NOT "to WORK FOR their salvation"/"to obtain salvation BY WORKS") then in that case, we might be in agreement... I can't tell yet.

 

[BillG]

You are denying what Jesus said. But I'll you that between you & Him.

The Father has authority to forgive sins. He gave that authority to His Son Jesus. And Jesus gives that as well to those He chooses.

I will leave it between you and him as well.

It's God who gave authority to forgive sins, which is why Jesus who says your sins are forgiven. Why?

Do you have the authority to forgive sins?

Nope you do not.

You are denying that Jesus is God in the flesh, because only God has the authority to forgive sins which Jesus stated "Your sins are forgiven you"

 

[Lafftur]

Oh no, not a "cover up" at all, but only what Jesus Himself taught.

Scriptures can be twisted by man - innocently and arrogantly.

When Yeshua/Jesus would finish speaking, He'd say, "He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying."
The Truth of the scriptures can ONLY be known by the Holy Spirit.

"Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation." - John 5:28-29

And the Apostle Paul confirms this -

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." - 2Cor 5:10

Your "pastor" has probably told you that "those who have done good" means that they 'accepted Jesus' and "those who did evil' didn't... but that's not True.

No, my "pastor" did not tell me, the Holy Spirit teaches me the Word of God.

This is what the Holy Spirit tells me about John 5:28-29, those who have done good are those that lived their life in accordance to believing, receiving and loving Yeshua/Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior and King; and those who have done evil have an evil heart of unbelief and lived according to their flesh - they believed in Yeshua/Jesus to "get something" to appear righteous like the Pharisees and be well thought of by their "works."

All that proclaim and profess to believe in Yeshua/Jesus as LORD will have to appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ to be examined by Him - the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. Our faith will be examined.

This is what I was told by the Holy Spirit. I read the scripture and then listened to what the Holy Spirit said. It's just that simple.

1 John 2:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Again, I encourage you and all to read these passages of Scripture for yourself, which declare plainly that we are all, both heathen and church-goer alike, will be judged and recompensed in that Day, on what we DID in this life, not what we claimed to have believed.
(Psalm 62:12, Prov 24:12, Jer 17:10, Jer 32:19, Eze 33:20, Lam 3:64, Matt 16:27, John 5:29, Rom 2:6, Rom 14:12, 2 Cor 5:10, 1Pet 1:17, Rev 20:12, and Rev 22:12) And there are many others.

Again, I encourage you and all to rely on the Holy Spirit to teach you the scriptures, even Yeshua/Jesus told us to hear what the Spirit is saying. Do not be so quick to believe and follow what people say, especially about God.

Pray and let God tell you Himself. God has given us His Word and His Holy Spirit to lead and guide us into ALL Truth.

Please remember, scriptures can be twisted. Everyone, seek God for yourself. Do not be lead astray, especially back into bondage of "works" for salvation, which is the arrogant teaching of the Pharisees.

Those Pharisees should have been teaching the people that the Messiah was coming - The Lamb of God to take away the sin of the world. This is what John the Baptist was preaching in the wilderness and ALL of Judea went out to hear him.

John the Baptist was full of the Holy Spirit. Those that had ears to hear, responded to the Holy Spirit of Truth, got water baptized and were ready when Yeshua/Jesus arrived. They were not following the Pharisees.

"Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God." - 1Pet 1:13-21

Amen

When read in context, so many of the verses that man-ordained ministers pluck out to preach "another gospel", we find fuller understanding of God's conditions on those who will be united to Christ as His counterpart in that Day.

Appearing before the Judgment Seat of Christ is NOT the same as the Great White Throne Judgment.

Many Pharisees repented and came to believe in Yeshua/Jesus Christ as Messiah. There is hope for us all to escape the "Works Mentality" and simply rest our hope fully on the GRACE that is brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ.....our Lord, Savior and King.

Amen.

 

[BillG]

You are denying what Jesus said. But I'll you that between you & Him.

The Father has authority to forgive sins. He gave that authority to His Son Jesus. And Jesus gives that as well to those He chooses.

Interesting.

You say that I am denying what Jesus said.

But when you asked me that question I said " Nope we can't deny it"

Nope we cant deny it but do you deny that Jesus said "A new commamdent I GIVE TO YOU?

Before I answer your response then tell me what are your thoughts concerning who had the authority to forgive sins?

 

[UnderGrace]

The thing is, ma'am, I actually have far greater understanding on this than you do. Sorry to be so blunt. But the doctrines that you embrace require one to ignore large portions of what Jesus directly taught and the whole of Scripture declares. That message the Lord commissioned me to teach includes ALL of Scripture, even the verses many use in attempt to refute God's Word.

Until the Lord opens your eyes, you cannot see.

"Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures." (Luke 24:45)

That is why Paul prayed for the fervent saints, "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power." (Eph 1:17-19)

So, what you are basically stating is that I challenge your thinking and knowledge and you have no response,

except to state that you have been commissioned by God to teach which is EXACTLY what false teachers typically claim over and over again.

As well, in your warped view, because we refute your false doctrine that adds credibility to your false doctrine.

Still waiting on "metanoia"

You have to deal with one word that challenges you.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You are partially correct.
At the Judgment of the Sheep & Goats, Christ (Head and Body) will minister judgment and eternal destiny of the nations whom they've inherited, based solely on there works. And the bulk of these will be admitted into the Kingdom, and be under the authority of the Lamb and His Counterpart.

The First Resurrection saints - those who had overcome, walked worthy and proven themselves faithful til the end - had received their glorified bodies at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and ascended into the air, dethroned the "principalities and dark rulers in the heavenlies" and taken their place. This is the beginning of the 1000 year reign, from Jerusalem. This is all clear Bible. No one was snatched secretly to heaven to escape the necessary tribulation that will refine the Elect.

No, you are still muddling things up.

It sounds as though you are saying that Matt25:40 speaks of "the Church which is His body" (us), but it doesn't. It is referring to those of Israel who will have come to faith WITHIN/DURING the trib years (FOLLOWING "our Rapture/Departure") and who will be the ones DOING the "INVITING" of "the Guests/the Gentiles [nations]" TO their promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (all of this is FOLLOWING [the point in time of] "our Rapture/Departure [IN THE AIR]")...
IOW, "the MARRIAGE" itself (Rev19:7) is something distinct from "the marriage SUPPER/FEAST" (Rev19:9) to which "guests [plural]"/"those HAVING BEEN INVITED" will have been being invited all during the trib years (the specific, limited, future time period consisting of "7 yrs / 'ONE WEEK'"). This relates also to Daniel 12:1-4,10 (not a "physical/bodily resurrection from the dead" like verse 13 is!), and other passages also referring to "Israel's FUTURE" (i.e. their "blindness/hardness [G4457 - pórósis ]... UNTIL"). Matt25:40 is not referring to US ("the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"), in its phrasing "the least of these My brethren," if you think that. [NOTHING in the Olivet Discourse speaks of "the Church which is His body," but things that take place FOLLOWING "our Rapture/Departure"... and that LEAD UP TO His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

limmuwd: This is all clear Bible. No one was snatched secretly to heaven to escape the necessary tribulation that will refine the Elect.

Are you suggesting that only those who will [futurely] experience the tribulation period [7 yrs leading up to His Second Coming to the earth] are the ONLY ones who will ever be "refined" (and thus "Elect")??

I would say to that idea ^ , WE ("the Church which is His body"--ALL those "saved" "in this present age [singular]" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN]) are NOT waiting for that future "7-yr period" IN ORDER TO BE "refined" [there WILL BE that future "7-yr period" existing on the earth, but I think you are misunderstanding its PURPOSE]. If that were the case (that its purpose is "in order to be refined" [re: the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY/us]), then think how many "saints" since the first century will have missed out on that opportunity! (um, no.)

 

[Lafftur]

limmuwd: This is all clear Bible. No one was snatched secretly to heaven to escape the necessary tribulation that will refine the Elect.

Are you suggesting that only those who will [futurely] experience the tribulation period [7 yrs leading up to His Second Coming to the earth] are the ONLY ones who will ever be "refined" (and thus "Elect")??

I would say to that idea ^ , WE ("the Church which is His body"--ALL those "saved" "in this present age [singular]" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN]) are NOT waiting for that future "7-yr period" IN ORDER TO BE "refined" [there WILL BE that future "7-yr period" existing on the earth, but I think you are misunderstanding its PURPOSE]. If that were the case (that its purpose is "in order to be refined" [re: the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY/us]), then think how many "saints" since the first century will have missed out on that opportunity! (um, no.)

Oh goodness, everyone.......listen, we don't know the Truth of the Scriptures unless God tells us.

Our human reasoning can lead us off into all kinds of rabbit trails. Read and study the scriptures but, rely on the Holy Spirit to teach us and give the understanding.

We're all in different places, let's just give each other grace and know it's okay not to agree on teachings that have nothing to do with salvation.

Much love to all of you!

 

[limmuwd]

Well, *I* am not saying "in order to OBTAIN salvation [/eternal life]"... but that they HAVE IT and now (under these circumstances of duress) are being exhorted to work it outwardly despite any fears they are experiencing. So, if you are saying that (and NOT "to WORK FOR their salvation"/"to obtain salvation BY WORKS") then in that case, we might be in agreement... I can't tell yet.

When we realize that the "salvation" we have obtained now - by the work of Christ Jesus alone -is the beginning, not the end of our Journey, it helps us tremendously in understanding God's great plan and purpose.

What I do know for certain, and the Lord God has had me teaching now for many years, is that the promises of Rev 2 & 3 will only be attained by those who "repent" (actually turn from sin), "walk worthy" and "overcome." Being "saved" does not guarantee these promises. The fullness of "Salvation" is not a one time event.

Question... to whom are all the warnings in the New Testament given: to those who have been "saved", or to those sinners in the world?

 

[UnderGrace]

^ I agree, UnderGrace.

Excellent!!

 

[JadenS]

limmuwd: This is all clear Bible. No one was snatched secretly to heaven to escape the necessary tribulation that will refine the Elect.



Oh goodness, everyone.......listen, we don't know the Truth of the Scriptures unless God tells us.

Our human reasoning can lead us off into all kinds of rabbit trails. Read and study the scriptures but, rely on the Holy Spirit to teach us and give the understanding.

We're all in different places, let's just give each other grace and know it's okay not to agree on teachings that have nothing to do with salvation.

Much love to all of you!

and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

 

[limmuwd]

So, what you are basically stating is that I challenge your thinking and knowledge and you have no response,

except to state that you have been commissioned by God to teach which is EXACTLY what false teachers typically claim over and over again.

As well, in your warped view, because we refute your false doctrine that adds credibility to your false doctrine.

Still waiting on "metanoia"

You have to deal with one word that challenges you.

I actually responded quite a while back on "metanoia" which states specifically that one must "turn away from sin."
Even a passing interest in the Biblical Greek will reveal that. And even more telling is the usage of "metanoia" in the New Testament.

The watered down modern definition in no way fits the way Jesus uses "repent" in Luke 13 or to the churches in Revelation 2 & 3. Jesus is warning those who have been "saved" that unless they turn from their sins, they will perish.

It really is that simple.

 

[UnderGrace]

I actually responded quite a while back on "metanoia" which states specifically that one must "turn away from sin."
Even a passing interest in the Biblical Greek will reveal that. And even more telling is the usage of "metanoia" in the New Testament.

The watered down modern definition in no way fits the way Jesus uses "repent" in Luke 13 or to the churches in Revelation 2 & 3. Jesus is warning those who have been "saved" that unless they turn from their sins, they will perish.

It really is that simple.

Do you understand etymology of words and definitions?

 

[Lafftur]

and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

.....to love one another....

 

[limmuwd]

No, you are still muddling things up.

It sounds as though you are saying that Matt25:40 speaks of "the Church which is His body" (us), but it doesn't. It is referring to those of Israel who will have come to faith WITHIN/DURING the trib years (FOLLOWING "our Rapture/Departure") and who will be the ones DOING the "INVITING" of "the Guests/the Gentiles [nations]" TO their promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (all of this is FOLLOWING [the point in time of] "our Rapture/Departure [IN THE AIR]")...
IOW, "the MARRIAGE" itself (Rev19:7) is something distinct from "the marriage SUPPER/FEAST" (Rev19:9) to which "guests [plural]"/"those HAVING BEEN INVITED" will have been being invited all during the trib years (the specific, limited, future time period consisting of "7 yrs / 'ONE WEEK'"). This relates also to Daniel 12:1-4,10 (not a "physical/bodily resurrection from the dead" like verse 13 is!), and other passages also referring to "Israel's FUTURE" (i.e. their "blindness/hardness [G4457 - pórósis ]... UNTIL"). Matt25:40 is not referring to US ("the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"), in its phrasing "the least of these My brethren," if you think that. [NOTHING in the Olivet Discourse speaks of "the Church which is His body," but things that take place FOLLOWING "our Rapture/Departure"... and that LEAD UP TO His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom]

Curious who you've been listening to?
For all those with the 'timelines' and 'charts' and 'wishful thinking' have done a great disservice to the Church.

There is no pre-tribulation rapture in the Bible.
There is no separation between Israel and the Church (They are one in the same)
And ALL the promises and warning in the New Testament (and most of the Old) are to both Jew and Gentile (those "grafted into the One olive tree") alike.

Time & space do not permit me to expound on these things here.
Got plenty on my website.

God's Wisdom & Understanding as you seek His face.

 

[limmuwd]

Do you understand etymology of words and definitions?

Very well. Thank you!

Especially the Biblical Greek and Hebrew.

 

[JadenS]

.....to love one another....

Being obedient is to love.

 

[OneOfHis]

I will leave it between you and him as well.

It's God who gave authority to forgive sins, which is why Jesus who says your sins are forgiven. Why?

Do you have the authority to forgive sins?

Nope you do not.

You are denying that Jesus is God in the flesh, because only God has the authority to forgive sins which Jesus stated "Your sins are forgiven you"

It is so easy to prove Jesus is God.....


I am very curious how anyone could believe otherwise...


"The word was God"

"The word was made flesh and dwelt among us..."


"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."


"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."