Not By Works

[Ariel82]

Obviously you enjoy the obfuscation that using the OJB version of the Bible brings on a non Jewish site. To me that is deliberately making the discussion much harder than need be. Therefore you must enjoy creating pain for others. Are you a sadist?

I don't think he does it out of the motive to cause pain. He is Messianic Jewish, so still uses the Bible.

It's not his choice of Bible versions that I find disturbing, but the inability to articulate the foundation of salvation is Jesus alone or Yashua as they like to say.

 

[Endoscopy]

The difference being that the Old covenant sacrifices could never take away sins completely, hence why they had to be repeated. Even when a woman gave birth she had to go through a whole ritual each time, because she was considered unclean. Mary and Joseph must have been poor, because they opted for 2 dove offerings, rather than a lamb.

It was all pointing to Jesus, the ONE perfect sacrifice for sins forever. By just ONE offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified (Hebrews 10:11-18).

Jesus said "It is finished" (John 19:30)

The annual sacrifice was an unblemished lamb for God instead of the current unblemished Lamb of God. One simple different word but a huge difference.

 

[LightLoveHope]

This thread is not about Antinomianism (sinning and not caring).....it's about the foundation: faith in Christ.


Repeating that the thread is about something else is not just a lie, it's a willful sin due to blindness, unbelief and lack of love.

Sorry Ariel. Are you blind, and cannot read. I was just describing what Free Grace theology
holds to, not what this thread is about or anything else.

Now if that is the reason to say I have blindness, unbelief and lack of love, then you are as
crazy as the free grace movement. It does not really matter beyond that because rational
points and discussion are just not here. But may God of grace open you eyes and bless you
in His great love Amen.

 

[7777pinacled]

What is with you?Blood lust?there certainly is tension but I haven't witnessed anyone wanting to "kill anyone" in this thread whether spiritually or physically.

Then Yeshua gave this illustration: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came looking for fruit but didn’t find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘Here, I’ve come looking for fruit on this fig tree for three years now without finding any. Cut it down — why let it go on using up the soil?’ 8 But he answered, ‘Sir, leave it alone one more year. I’ll dig around it and put manure on it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, well and good; if not, you will have it cut down then.’”

if anyone is courageous enough to listen to moses on a shabbat they may be given another portion that has been missing in their lives.but no, the blood lust just takes over and they ignore the Royal Law


“‘Do not be unjust in judging — show neither partiality to the poor nor deference to the mighty, but with justice judge your neighbor.16 “‘Do not go around spreading slander among your people, but also don’t stand idly by when your neighbor’s life is at stake; I am Adonai.17 “‘Do not hate your brother in your heart, but rebuke your neighbor frankly, so that you won’t carry sin because of him. 18 Don’t take vengeance on or bear a grudge against any of your people; rather, love your neighbor as yourself; I am Adonai.19 “‘Observe my regulations.“‘Don’t let your livestock mate with those of another kind, don’t sow your field with two different kinds of grain, and don’t wear a garment of cloth made with two different kinds of thread.20 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a woman who is a slave intended for another man, and she has neither been redeemed nor given her freedom, there is to be an investigation. They are not to be put to death, because she was not free. 21 In reparation he is to bring a ram as a guilt offering for himself to the entrance of the tent of meeting. 22 The cohenwill make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before Adonai for the sin he committed, and he will be forgiven for the sin he committed.(LY: iii) 23

“‘When you enter the land and plant various kinds of fruit trees, you are to regard its fruit as forbidden —
for three years it will be forbidden to you and not eaten.

24 In the fourth year all its fruit will be holy, for praising Adonai.

25 But in the fifth year you may eat its fruit, so that it will produce even more for you; I am Adonai your God.

 

[Ariel82]

ah
free grace reminds me of something like universal salvation.
in other words, blasphemy of the Ruach Haqodosh(Holy Spirit) is forgivable)
only a fallen one would dare tell a Believer this.

They are trying to get believers to sell their Shield of Faith

Antinomianism is bad.

Grace is FREELY GIVEN FROM GOD TO US while we were still SINNERS.

This doctrine is Not the same as the false Hypergrace doctrine some do push even though the topic is banned.

"Sell their shield of faith?"

No this is about understanding the helmet and breastplate.

 

[LightLoveHope]

You sound like you are saying what an apostle said others were accusing Paul of when he preached Christ crucified, which was: well then, you are saying it is perfectly okay to continue in sin.

But to know that anger in my heart at you is murder is much MORE exacting than: you must not take anyones physical life. It's actually taking it much further than the outward appearance and doings and straight into a mans inside thoughts and life that no one else can see. That is not abandonment of morality. It is Him changing a man from the inside out. If he never has anger, he will never take anyones physical life. The problem is dealt with at the place where defilement begins - inside the man.

Hi Stunned,

I am just praising the Lord, and am not bothered about this quarreling and desire to
define things rather than celebrate our Lord and King. What I have found is in His
presence things fall into place, we see the meaning of Holiness, purity and love
through the cross, because we find cleansing and victory here, Amen

 

[7777pinacled]

Antinomianism is bad.

Grace is FREELY GIVEN FROM GOD TO US while we were still SINNERS.

This doctrine is Not the same as the false Hypergrace doctrine some do push even though the topic is banned.

"Sell their shield of faith?"

No this is about understanding the helmet and breastplate.

oil and bread

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hi Stunned,

I am just praising the Lord, and am not bothered about this quarreling and desire to
define things rather than celebrate our Lord and King. What I have found is in His
presence things fall into place, we see the meaning of Holiness, purity and love
through the cross, because we find cleansing and victory here, Amen

I'm not quarreling...I'm just having a discussion.

 

[Ariel82]

Then Yeshua gave this illustration: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came looking for fruit but didn’t find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘Here, I’ve come looking for fruit on this fig tree for three years now without finding any. Cut it down — why let it go on using up the soil?’ 8 But he answered, ‘Sir, leave it alone one more year. I’ll dig around it and put manure on it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, well and good; if not, you will have it cut down then.’”

if anyone is courageous enough to listen to moses on a shabbat they may be given another portion that has been missing in their lives.but no, the blood lust just takes over and they ignore the Royal Law


“‘Do not be unjust in judging — show neither partiality to the poor nor deference to the mighty, but with justice judge your neighbor.16 “‘Do not go around spreading slander among your people, but also don’t stand idly by when your neighbor’s life is at stake; I am Adonai.17 “‘Do not hate your brother in your heart, but rebuke your neighbor frankly, so that you won’t carry sin because of him. 18 Don’t take vengeance on or bear a grudge against any of your people; rather, love your neighbor as yourself; I am Adonai.19 “‘Observe my regulations.“‘Don’t let your livestock mate with those of another kind, don’t sow your field with two different kinds of grain, and don’t wear a garment of cloth made with two different kinds of thread.20 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a woman who is a slave intended for another man, and she has neither been redeemed nor given her freedom, there is to be an investigation. They are not to be put to death, because she was not free. 21 In reparation he is to bring a ram as a guilt offering for himself to the entrance of the tent of meeting. 22 The cohenwill make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before Adonai for the sin he committed, and he will be forgiven for the sin he committed.(LY: iii) 23

“‘When you enter the land and plant various kinds of fruit trees, you are to regard its fruit as forbidden —
for three years it will be forbidden to you and not eaten.

24 In the fourth year all its fruit will be holy, for praising Adonai.

25 But in the fifth year you may eat its fruit, so that it will produce even more for you; I am Adonai your God.

The ONLY connect between those two scriptures is that they both mention fig trees and three years.

The one Jesus spoke about did NOT say it was newly planted.


Gonna head to bed, but will pray God helps you out with your Bible study and readings.

 

[7777pinacled]

I'm not quarreling...I'm just having a discussion.

If ever you feel like listening, i have a storeroom full of treasure the Lord has taught me over the yrs

 

[Endoscopy]

I don't think he does it out of the motive to cause pain. He is Messianic Jewish, so still uses the Bible.

It's not his choice of Bible versions that I find disturbing, but the inability to articulate the foundation of salvation is Jesus alone or Yashua as they like to say.

I get regular emails from from a Messianic Jew. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg. He lives in Israel and is an expert on Biblical languages and times. He comes from the Jewish Biblical thinking and brings interesting concepts to light. He never uses the Jewish jargon except to make a point for clarity. This poster could learn from his method. .

Dr. Eli Lizorkin Eyzenberg
(Research Professor of Jewish and Christian Studies)
Discover the Hebrew Bible & The Jewish Background of the New Testament , Developer

A Few Words About Me:
Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg is an Israeli expert scholar in Early and Modern Church History. Dr. Lizorkin-Eyzenberg has received a fair amount of Jewish and Christian education, both religious and secular. Outside his expertise in the ancient languages – Biblical Hebrew, Koine Greek, Syriac and Old Church Slovanic, he has a command of three other modern languages – English, Russian and Hebrew.. One of his greatest passions is building bridges of trust, respect and understanding between Christians and Jews, overcoming centuries of difficult, but almost always joined history. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg strongly believes that both the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament scriptures have much to teach both communities. He resides at Israel with his wife and children.

Education:
Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg holds an M.Div. degree in Christian Theology from the Reformed Theological Seminary (2000), and M.Phil. degree in Bible Interpretation (2008). He holds a Ph.D. in Ancient Cultures from Stellenbosch University (2011). Additional studies include doctoral and postdoctoral studies at the University of Pennsylvania, Leiden University, Princeton Theological Seminary and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

Professional Experience:
Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg is a published author, an experienced lecturer and an educator. He is responsible for the developing of Biblical studies courses here at the Israel Institute of Biblical Studies. He has been teaching Biblical, Jewish and Christian studies at the Israel Theological Seminary, at the Haifa Theological Institute, in the Nazareth Evangelical Theological Seminary and in Spurgeon’s College which is located at the University of Wales. He has been a content developer and a teacher at the Israel Institute of Biblical Studies for many years.

 

[Ariel82]

If ever you feel like listening, i have a storeroom full of treasure the Lord has taught me over the yrs

Do you ever feel like listening?

Does your storeroom contain WHAT THE GOSPEL MESSAGE JESUS/Yashua CAME TO TEACH REALLY IS?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

If ever you feel like listening, i have a storeroom full of treasure the Lord has taught me over the yrs

Its a little bit odd that you address a post I wrote to someone else but yet don't even acknowledge a post I wrote to you specifically...

 

[7777pinacled]

Do you ever feel like listening?

Does your storeroom contain WHAT THE GOSPEL MESSAGE JESUS/Yashua CAME TO TEACH REALLY IS?

So much so that i dont even need to hear his name.

 

[zone]

58 thousand posts.....

.....do we know yet? is it by works or not?

Romans 3
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

 

[gb9]

58 thousand posts.....

.....do we know yet? is it by works or not?

Romans 3
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

hi zone, nice to see you!

 

[gb9]

The free grace movement is about Antinomianism, the abandonment of morality in the face
of salvation by faith. Another phrase is lawlessness, being under no law at all or set of
morality rules. I am opposed to this position, though I do wonder why I need to repeat the
obvious all the time. But maybe people have such short term memories they forget the
foundations of the faith, lol.

greek word for grace- charis- first definition -a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus.

definition of gift- a thing given willingly to someone without payment.

so, since the very words and definition of grace is free gift, the Bible defines grace as free. you do not define it that way. so, the Bible is correct, you are wrong for mocking free grace, since the very definition of it by Biblical standards are free grace.

 

[TruthTalk]

greek word for grace- charis- first definition -a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus.

definition of gift- a thing given willingly to someone without payment.

so, since the very words and definition of grace is free gift, the Bible defines grace as free. you do not define it that way. so, the Bible is correct, you are wrong for mocking free grace, since the very definition of it by Biblical standards are free grace.

Hi gb9, and thank you for a clear definition of grace whereby Christians are set free and placed into God's family. Unfortunately people like LightLoveHope aka, PeterJens a lier and a fraud, will take the glorious Grace of God and crush it under foot and then insult a whole group of Christians and then he finishes his insult with LOL. Christianchat.com Moderators should take note of these insults and do what is appropriate to maintain a wonderful Christian website.

But maybe people have such short term memories they forget the
foundations of the faith, lol.

 

[TruthTalk]

58 thousand posts.....

.....do we know yet? is it by works or not?

Romans 3
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Why should we know yet, this debate has been on for 2000 years

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so belief without works is dead also."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so belief without works is dead also."

Faith without a life change can not save.[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”[/FONT]

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