Not By Works

[Budman]

Don't you now do things you could not do before? Or are you the same as you were before Christ?

Name a good work that a Christian does that an unbeliever can't do, Ralph.

(Matthew 7:24)

 

[stonesoffire]

The art of preaching and writing sermons.

I think that poster meant hermeneutics, which is the study of Bible interpretation.

Guys, it was a joke! Lol

 

[stonesoffire]

That was a new one for me also?

Here is what the Dictionary says about it:



I do not agree with it, because I think it is a Spiritual Gift:



Romans 12:6-8 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach;
[SUP]8 [/SUP] if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.


My Mother-inlaw said it best, "Some people think they are Gifted by GOD to Teach, when God actually called them to Plow."

Wow....I was speaking in tongues!

 

[Gabriel2020]

Hold a Godly conversation from beginning to end. An unbeliever cannot comprehend the things of God. That is a good work in the eyes of God.

 

[stonesoffire]

Hebrews 10:26
​

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
26. Compare on this and following verses, Heb 6:4, &c. There the warning was that if there be not diligence in progressing, a falling off will take place, and apostasy may ensue: here it is, that if there be lukewarmness in Christian communion, apostasy may ensue.if we sin—Greek present participle: if we be found sinning, that is, not isolated acts, but a state of sin [Alford]. A violation not only of the law, but of the whole economy of the New Testament (Heb 10:28, 29).wilfully—presumptuously, Greek "willingly." After receiving "full knowledge (so the Greek, compare 1Ti 2:4) of the truth," by having been "enlightened," and by having "tasted" a certain measure even of grace of "the Holy Ghost" (the Spirit of truth, Joh 14:17; and "the Spirit of grace," Heb 10:29): to fall away (as "sin" here means, Heb 3:12, 17; compare Heb 6:6) and apostatize (Heb 3:12) to Judaism or infidelity, is not a sin of ignorance, or error ("out of the way," the result) of infirmity, but a deliberate sinning against the Spirit (Heb 10:29; Heb 5:2): such sinning, where a consciousness of Gospel obligations not only was, but is present: a sinning presumptuously and preseveringly against Christ's redemption for us, and the Spirit of grace in us. "He only who stands high can fall low. A lively reference in the soul to what is good is necessary in order to be thoroughly wicked; hence, man can be more reprobate than the beasts, and the apostate angels than apostate man" [Tholuck].remaineth no more sacrifice—For there is but ONE Sacrifice that can atone for sin; they, after having fully known that sacrifice, deliberately reject it.

That's 5 that agree with each other, and with me. All of them from different denominations, and different centuries.

Speaking of lukewarmness:

Revelation 3:4“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.15“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

Being puked outta Jesus's mouth means being out of Christ.

'He who overcomes' is those that make it, those that don't, don't.

I looked at the Greek for this, and its my opinion that these are people who attend a church, but they feel no need to repent and turn to the Lord. Many sit in churches all over and listen to dry sermons about stories of good people and their lives, what men has accomplished or whatever they do talk about.

When the Lord says He counsels them to buy gold tried in the fire, that is speaking of Himself being the prized possession. Gold means deity symbolically. And the white raiment is something that only the redeemed have. White is Leukos meaning light.
Jesus is the light of the world and He floods our spirits once in darkness, to light. They were lacking.

So Jesus is speaking to people who sit in churches, thinking they are good with no real need, they have all of the world.

 

[stonesoffire]

You're the one who called me blind! You're the one making me the victim, silly man.

I care about people when it's not in my own interest to do so. Especially those that are weak, disenfranchised, suffering, etc. I feel alive when I care about people.

Well, that's a good thing to do Ralph, and I commend you for this. But, am cutting to the chase here....the scriptures say that God is looking for worshippers, who worship Him in Spirit and truth. He wants us to sit at His feet. To listen to His Voice. To walk with Him and listen for that direction which way to go. And to carry His Presence always. Be a Mary.

Do this and one will never worry about loss. Works will flow naturally out.

Im not trying to one up you here. Just hopefully help.

speaktomes post there is a glitch with my iPad.

 

[Ralph-]

Name a good work that a Christian does that an unbeliever can't do, Ralph.

(Matthew 7:24)

Stay in a bad marriage for the sole reason because God said to. Many Christians don't even do
that one. So many in fact that it is statistically proven that the church as a whole looks just like the world in that point. And now it seems sexual immorality in general is the point in which the church looks just like the world.

You're missing the point here anyway. Even though Christians can do things unbelievers can't, the point is Christians are characterized by the things that the world is not. And characterized by them more and more as they grow up in him. Remember, I told you it is the lifestyle of righteousness that distinguishes the sinning saint from the unbeliever living in sin. Sinning saints sin, but they don't live in sin like the people of the world do. Works of righteousness really do distinguish the believer from the unbeliever. But nowadays only the confession of Christ is what distinguishes the church from the world. The church is deceived.

 

[Endoscopy]

He does not need outward proof. But he has decided that we will be acquitted or condemned on the testimony of our lives. He doesn't have to do that, but he will. That's what he plainly said he will do.

Jesus said that by their fruits you shall know them.

Matthew 7

True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The Wise and Foolish Builders
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.


Here is a discussion of the issue.
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-15-salvation-and-good-works-ephesians-210

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, here we are.

I put out challenges to both EG (4hrs ago), & DC(3hrs ago), & they wouldn't speak to me at all.

See this post? If you follow it back, you'll see that ONE MINUTE after I left, BOTH OF THEM came back in & badmouthed me just like I said they would.

Yes, they are that predictable.

But I give kudos to EG, for at least he put forth the effort to accept my challenge.

However, not all of his 4 commentaries were the opposite of mine.

#1


Notice in red that the author of the commentary says that christians can apostatize, (which my 5 choices agree), yet keeps apostasy just under the line of going to Hell.

This can't be true, for he then goes on & say the punishment for these apostates is worse than the capital punishment under the Law.

The problem with that is those in the OT (such as Korah) who received capital punishment actually went to Hell.

I agree personally that these apostates are worse than those in the OT, but they all go to Hell, & those worthy of more stripe get them there.

This commentary agrees more with mine, & since it's not the opposite, it's disqualified.

Dude you have Gull. We are not here 24/7, I did nto even see your challenge until right. Before I responded to you the first time. The only reason I even posted 4 commentaries (I did nto even say I agreed with them) was to prove you once again are in error. And just want to fight, you just proved it again.

1. That did not agree with you, It says plainly,. That these people. Are sanctified, That God has perfected them forever, It does nto say they LOST SALVATION. Like your trying to prove, it says the OPPOSITE.

2nd, Can you show where they went to hell? According to the commentator. They did nto go to hell. That was not the punishment, it was physical death (ie, they had sinned a sinned which lead to the death penalty) If anyone needs to see your works self righteous gospel. There it is.

Either way you just proved how untrustworthy and how arrogant you are. You asked for 4, and I gave 4, Yet here you are STILL trying to puff yourself up.

Get a life man.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

#4



This commentary makes no sense at all. It says there is a judgment on the christian that is worse than physical death.

What kind of judgment would that be that's worse than death?

WHERE would that judgment take place? In paradise? At the judgment seat of Christ? It doesn't make sense at all.

But it still qualifies.

EG did get 2 1/2, which was more than I expected. And he is to be commended for his efforts.

I do agree that not every commentary will be as it should. That's why I try to find 3 or 4 that fully agree, and those must match with scripture. We do that with Bible versions, why not commentaries?

I will also use Hebrew & Greek Lexicons to get accurate definitions of key words, such as "falling away" which means total abandonment & complete rebellion against Christ.

Yes, christians CAN do that.

So EG didn't get his 4 after all. He may actually search & find 4, but he'll never find 20 against 20 like he said.

This is because commentaries aren't as bad as some claim.

whatever dude, You asked for 4 commentaries which said the opposite as you, You never said they had to be truthful. All you said is they had to be opposite. I ghave them, You agreeing or disagreeing with them does not matter.

What a joke.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I looked up 7 commentaries. 1 of them was a short commentary, and to be honest, I could not figure out what the commentator was saying. 1 spoke of the (sin of apostasy) as being continuing in animal sacrifice at the temple. Ie, after believing in jesus, they continued to focus on animal sacrrifice, I could havce used that, but the commentator did not say one way or the other if he believed the guy was still saved, or lost salvation. 2 agreed with his view that apostasy means loss of salvation. Then I had these 4, which said apostasy does NOT mean a loss of salvation. But will result in chastening (SEVERE) one even I used David as an excuse, He committed 2 grave sins (murder and adultry) and God chastened him with the death of his child. And although he was forgiven forever, He suffered greatly from that point forward (as he said some things are WORSE that death)

either way,. The fact he continues just goes to prove he is not here for any honest discussion at all. Only to attack those he disagrees with..

 

[AbigailZeke]

Speaking of commentaries... I started reading one by Martin Luther, on Galatians...

"Grace involves the remission of sins, peace and a happy conscience. Sin is not canceled by lawful living, for no person is able to live up to the Law. The Law reveals guilt, fills the conscience with terror, and drives men to despair. Much less is sin taken away by man-invented endeavors."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Speaking of commentaries... I started reading one by Martin Luther, on Galatians...

"Grace involves the remission of sins, peace and a happy conscience. Sin is not canceled by lawful living, for no person is able to live up to the Law. The Law reveals guilt, fills the conscience with terror, and drives men to despair. Much less is sin taken away by man-invented endeavors."

Amen, it either causes a burden so severe one can not maintain (thus many walk away) or religion. A place where we water down Gods law. And focus on all these overt sins such as murder, adultry, porn, drinking, smoking, cussing and things which can be seen, and ignore the sins which happen in private or sins of the heart which can not be seen, They become modern day pharisees, and can not even see it.

 

[AbigailZeke]

Amen, it either causes a burden so severe one can not maintain (thus many walk away) or religion. A place where we water down Gods law. And focus on all these overt sins such as murder, adultry, porn, drinking, smoking, cussing and things which can be seen, and ignore the sins which happen in private or sins of the heart which can not be seen, They become modern day pharisees, and can not even see it.

Exactly! In attempts to cover their own inadequacy and feel good about themselves. It all revolves around self.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly! In attempts to cover their own inadequacy and feel good about themselves. It all revolves around self.

Amen, and one of the symptoms you will see is they are very judgmental. They like to belittle people. They will present with a very self righteous attitude, and all they want to talk about is sin, and judgment, (Ie, Thank God I am not like the sinner, They will teach REPENT REPENT, when they do nto even realise what it means) the terms grace and mercy seem foreign to them because they do nto understand what they mean.

 

[Magenta]

Some of you may remember Katy-follower from some of her excellent posts in this thread, which she has may not have posted in since last summer. I would like to bring your attention to a thread she created in the Prayer Forum, and ask that you pray for her. Thank you

 

[LightLoveHope]

Salvation - repentance, faith, works - founded on purity

Lose any part of the three and ones salvation goes.

Repentance - to abide in wilfull rebellion and sin. Heb 10:26-27
faith - to cease to trust God saves you and the cross forgives you. Hebrews 11:6
works - cease to exercise love flowing through ones life. James 2:26

Repentance
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Heb 10:26-27
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? ......you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Faith
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Heb 11:6
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. Heb 3:14

Works
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead James 2:26
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 1 Peter 3:9

Eternity is pure, without sin, holy, without blemish. What we call blemish and what God calls
blemish is different. We pick at the smallest details, the right way to be polite or show someone
we are together, or not be condemning, or not appreciating enough, or upsetting someone by
being too firm and not recognise our sinful allegiance to wealth, power, sexual desire, selfish
indulgences, holidays we just cannot go without, recognition of our achievements, what we
deserve.

We are happy to be violent within, a raging inferno, lusting after any opportunity that comes along,
wanting that bigger house, car, position, yet outside we want to be seen as being religious, following
Jesus, getting close to others and helping them, in their poor state of spiritual distress.

Little wonder purity is rejected or intimacy and closeness, it would result in a explosion with many injuries.

But this is what Jesus saw in the pharisees. He saw much that was good, but without taming the heart
and being gentle within, there is no real hope of showing true love without.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Salvation - repentance, faith, works - founded on purity

Lose any part of the three and ones salvation goes.

Repentance - to abide in wilfull rebellion and sin. Heb 10:26-27
faith - to cease to trust God saves you and the cross forgives you. Hebrews 11:6
works - cease to exercise love flowing through ones life. James 2:26

Repentance
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Heb 10:26-27
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? ......you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Faith
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Heb 11:6
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. Heb 3:14

Works
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead James 2:26
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 1 Peter 3:9

Eternity is pure, without sin, holy, without blemish. What we call blemish and what God calls
blemish is different. We pick at the smallest details, the right way to be polite or show someone
we are together, or not be condemning, or not appreciating enough, or upsetting someone by
being too firm and not recognise our sinful allegiance to wealth, power, sexual desire, selfish
indulgences, holidays we just cannot go without, recognition of our achievements, what we
deserve.

We are happy to be violent within, a raging inferno, lusting after any opportunity that comes along,
wanting that bigger house, car, position, yet outside we want to be seen as being religious, following
Jesus, getting close to others and helping them, in their poor state of spiritual distress.

Little wonder purity is rejected or intimacy and closeness, it would result in a explosion with many injuries.

But this is what Jesus saw in the pharisees. He saw much that was good, but without taming the heart
and being gentle within, there is no real hope of showing true love without.

There you have it folks. The blueprint for a works based, self righteous gospel which Denys the grace of God.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

There you have it folks. The blueprint for a works based, self righteous gospel which Denys the grace of God.

thats all ive seen from him thus far

there were some pretty good points made he may be the same person who ran the "peter jens" account

 

[stonesoffire]

Speaking of commentaries... I started reading one by Martin Luther, on Galatians...

"Grace involves the remission of sins, peace and a happy conscience. Sin is not canceled by lawful living, for no person is able to live up to the Law. The Law reveals guilt, fills the conscience with terror, and drives men to despair. Much less is sin taken away by man-invented endeavors."

would rep, but CC is restricting...grrr..