Not By Works

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iPads do strange things. It typed out zip ads for iPads.

Remember EG and his hilarious iPad errors? Kind of miss it. Lol
 
dcontroversal said:
Yeah....it is a bad deal......and obvious that one who's 1st post was designed to make me look bad....it took me months to get a reply from twitter and same thing happened to me on FACEBOOK as well....I was taking about chocolate covered expresso beans and calling them magic beans and how good they would "light you up" and got accused by some really righteous "Christians" of doing drugs......funny how some will sin in the process of trying to devalue and or make one look bad....
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There are some uptight Christians out there bro!

I've GOT to get some of those magic beans man!
 
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gb9 said:
why don't you address them, and their error...
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Okay.
Perhaps their not as much in error as you think.


gb9 said:
...some Christians think they do not sin. ( no one is sinless ) .
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If you post a snippet of someone here saying they will not sin with their bodies henceforth maybe I'll chime in on the subject.


gb9 said:
...some Christians think they are saved today, but tomorrow , don't know...
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If you mean they don't know with certainty that they will continue to trust in Christ to the very end I think they are being very humble and wise and dependent on Christ, not arrogant and self assured. You know, that 'so if you think you are standing firm be careful...'. Familiar with it?


gb9 said:
.... some think we have to keep the Torah.
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They think they have to keep Torah for the same reason we think we have to keep 'do not murder'. Just as we believe that no one with eternal life in them murders, so we keep the command to not murder, not to be justified but because that's what saved people are expected to do by virtue of faith. That's what, for example, 'keep Sabbath' means to them. It's not a matter of trying to be justified.

I know this will be hard for you to get because we are trained to only think of someone keeping the law as them trying to justify themselves. But they are doing it for the same reason we say a true believer must not murder. And we must respect it, or else we are guilty of not being loving towards them. They are compelled by conscience to do it and we have a godly, loving obligation to not be a stumbling block to them and not cause them to sin against their conscience.
 
dcontroversal said:
You should be very careful before you judge in error Peter
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Do you love Hagin? It does explain a lot.

And my friend I am not judging, I am though pointing out some simple realities.
Been in ministry a long time but no real support or church. Explains a lot.
Do you have a congregation or even a consistent approach?

Dreamers are everywhere but actual ministries need heartfelt followers. How's it going?
 
PHart said:
If you post a snippet of someone here saying they will not sin with their bodies henceforth maybe I'll chime in on the subject.
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Please explain. Does sin not emanate from the will of man? His heart, and not his body?
 
PeterJens said:
Do you love Hagin? It does explain a lot.

And my friend I am not judging, I am though pointing out some simple realities.
Been in ministry a long time but no real support or church. Explains a lot.
Do you have a congregation or even a consistent approach?

Dreamers are everywhere but actual ministries need heartfelt followers. How's it going?
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Hagin...not likely

No real support? What does that mean....The love of money is the root of all evil.....who needs to be paid to preach or teach?

I have been consistent my whole life with my belief and stance (other than changing a few beliefs I was raised in like imminent return to post trib/pre wrath) and a few other things

So you need heartfelt followers? I thought we were to point people to JESUS and teach to follow him?
 
Bogadile said:
Let me just point out, the argument has been going on for 2073 pages over if the Scriptures are true when they state the following:
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Are we all just misunderstanding Paul?
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Not at all, if you are referring to the "works" of the law.
That was the subject of Paul's writings.
Folks were "suggesting" that circumcision was necessary for salvation.
That, and dietary laws and hundreds of other things do not make you salvageable.

Those who infer that obedience to God is part of this "works" anathema, and unnecessary, are in error
 
Word_Swordsman said:
Rather than reply to one I'll try to avoid offending anyone in particular. There's a gap in this discussion that maybe I missed trying to catch up. First let the apostle James' take on works be posted.

James 2:14-24 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

It's correct that salvation is had by the faith of God in the righteousness of his dear Son Jesus. Only His righteousness matters. But salvation doesn't stop at the initial gift of faith to believe on Jesus instead of relying upon any religious or moral code apart from Jesus. There are many "ways" among people of the world, but only His way will save us. His Way centers around works among those who are "In Him" by faith. Jesus didn't go about preaching faith only. Faith is the basis of His gospel. Neither did any apostle focus mostly on faith.

I'll move on to more apostolic comment on what kind of faith pleases God enough to fit into the James scriptures. I looked for anything quoted from 2 Peter, didn't see some, so here goes: According to Peter.....

2 Peter 1:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

That lays out the basis of the gift of faith of Christ, with our knowledge of God following. So what then? Jesus found us believers, and we found Him. Well, the apostles followed, doing His thing, His works. What works?

2 Peter 1:5-11 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

There should be no doubt remaining that it is possible for anyone beginning to follow Christ who cleansed us from our sin record, that one can fall away back into sin. Like Judas.

We all take some comfort in reading about how some of them stumbled concerning faith and certainly works, like Peter did a few times. But in no way does the gospel of Christ give way for a believer to continue living as though Satan is still in charge of their life. It isn't easy, but it is that righteousness of Christ is put upon a true believer that empowers the faith to switch from a hell-bent life to one of good works. It's those works that demonstrate to God and people exactly which master we serve. One can only serve one or the other.

So it is that no works can take the place of the first step of a sure salvation, believing on our Savior for salvation. From that moment Jesus is looking for disciples still following.

Follow and do the kind of things He does, which was and is what the Father says and does.

Couple faith and works from now on so you can live confidently that God finds you in obedience to all of His instruction that the apostles learned, not just the easy parts that can't be demonstrated.

What we always need to incorporate is balance of doctrine.
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Amen! Glory be to God!

Here's what i learned:

Not by works( NOT VOID OF WORKS) but by grace thru FAITH.(eph 2:8-9)
Justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.(james 2:24)
Faith that Worketh in Love.(gal 5:6)
Faith and Action Working TOGETHER.(james 2:22)

Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH and NOT BY WORKS(of ourselves).(#1)

It is NOT BY FAITH ALONE(#2)but it WORKS in LOVE(#3)thus FAITH & LOVE(works of obedience(romans 1:5) manifested in ACTION and in TRUTH)(1john 3:16-18)are working TOGETHER.(#4)

2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.



THE FIRST PHASE OF SALVATION IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT GOD HAS SENT AND IN HIS WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.
(john 6:28-29, eph 1:13,romans 10:8-17).
THROUGH THIS FAITH WE WILL RECEIVE THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT(the Helper/Counsellor)(gal 3:14, john 14:16-17)

John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

THE SECOND PHASE IS THE WORKING OUT OF THAT SALVATION AND REMAINING/CONTINUING IN THE FAITH TO THE END THROUGH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL AND COMMANDMENTS, DOING GOOD WORKS. WALKING AS JESUS DID AND BEING A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO DOES THE WORKS BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHO IS THE HEAD.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, HIS BODY OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father

1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, iF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Romans 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the OBEDIENCE that comes from faith.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always OBEYED—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—CONTINUE TO WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—WHETHER YOU ARE SLAVES TO SIN, WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, OR TO OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?

2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the OBEDIENCE THAT ACCOMPANIES YOUR CONFESSION OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to PREPARE God’s people FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.

Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

1 Timothy 6:18-19 Command them TO DO GOOD, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.

Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for all who OBEY HIM.

New International Version 1984 Matthew 19:16-17 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”

Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful SERVANT You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. COME AND SHARE YOUR MASTER’S HAPPINESS!’

WE ARE SANCTIFIED BY THESE TRUTHS AS IT IS WRITTEN:
John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

James 1:22 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY deceiving your own selves.

Romans 2:13 (For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God: that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; and His commandments are not grievous.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

Ephesians 3:19 and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all THE FULLNESS OF GOD.

THE THIRD PHASE OF SALVATION IS SALVATION FROM GOD’S WRATH. THIS IS DEPENDING ON GOD’S MERCY AND JUDGMENT(JUSTICE).

Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

1 John 4:17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because IN THIS WORLD WE ARE LIKE HIM.

Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that MEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father,(ref:john 14:12) where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment,(ref:hebrews 10:26-27) because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Romans 2:5-10 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? FOR WE WILL ALL STAND BEFORE GOD’S JUDGMENT SEAT.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, NOT TO BEAR SIN, BUT TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.

1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the SINNER?”
 
joefizz said:
Yep and hopefully by now people have figured out that only through Jesus is any salvation and once receiving salvation it then cannot be lost,God bless.
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Salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement.
It
is written..."[FONT=&quot]For the time is come that [/FONT]judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? " (1 Peter 4:17)
 
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