"Not by works" - false!

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Fastfredy0 said:
That is not an accurate definition, though close, it is a characteristic of Faith. Besides, it is not the definition you gave me in previous posts.
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I'm taking the definition of faith right out of Hebrews 11:1.

Fastfredy0 said:
Please agree to use the dictionary as a common source of understanding, otherwise, communication is to muddled to continue.
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The world's faith comes from man. The faith the Bible speaks about comes from God. The world can't help but to define it from their perspective. But we can examine your dictionary definition again if you want. I think we can apply it to Romans 12 and still have an accurate discussion.

The problem is 1) the world's definition is a presumptuous, blind faith (God's faith is presumptuous, nor blind), and 2) you are saying faith only becomes faith when you accept it.

Fastfredy0 said:
Here's another dictionary definition: belief and trust in and loyalty to God
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I'm okay with this. But, as I've been pointing out, this is 'having' faith--not just knowing about something, but accepting it into yourself.
I know it will be hard for you to understand the difference between faith-'the evidence of things unseen'-and the result of holding onto and possessing that faith--'believing and trusting', which we also call 'faith'.
 
jackrosie said:
There you go....it’s all about “You”...when it should be all about God.
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It’s all about the scripture.

Scripture tells us to walk worthy of our vocation and lays out in great detail the behaviors and actions we are not to do.

OSAS is all about you.
 
Micaiah-imla said:
It’s all about the scripture.

Scripture tells us to walk worthy of our vocation and lays out in great detail the behaviors and actions we are not to do.

OSAS is all about you.
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I can’t relate to your teaching as it is false...no offence meant.

OSAS.....is all about God...
Why does the HOLY SPIRIT reside in your heart?
 
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jackrosie said:
There you go....it’s all about “You”...when it should be all about God.
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"11But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. " - 1 Timothy 6:11

This is what many people in the church now call 'works'. We have fallen a loooooong way from the truth.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Your main contention is "GOD IS LOVE" and I agree. From your definition of LOVE, you determine God's other attributes and how He must act. I submit that you definition of GOD'S LOVE is inaccurate.

I state that GOD'S LOVE must be HOLY. Your usage of the meaning of GOD'S LOVE would make God unholy (which I am sure is not your intention).


Proof:
Consider the HOLINESS of God's Love
“A love of holiness cannot be without a hatred of everything that is contrary to it. As God necessarily loves himself, so he must necessarily hate everything that is against himself: and as he loves himself for his own excellency and holiness, he must necessarily detest whatsoever is repugnant to his holiness, because of the evil of it. Since he is infinitely good, he cannot but love goodness Psalm 11:7 “The righteous Lord loveth righteousness,” as it is a resemblance to himself, and cannot but abhor unrighteousness Psalm 11:6A Upon the wicked (godless) He will rain coals of fire, as being most distant from him, and contrary to him. If he have any esteem for his own perfections, he must needs have an implacable aversion to all that is so repugnant to him (Psalm 5:5 You hate all who do evil), that would, if it were possible, destroy him, and is a point directed, not only against his glory, but against his life. If he did not hate it, he would hate himself: for since righteousness is his image, and sin would deface his image; if he did not love his image, and loathe what is against his image, he would loathe himself, he would be an enemy to his own nature. Nay, if it were possible for him to love it, it were possible for him not to be holy, it were possible then for him to deny himself, and will that he were no God, which is a palpable contradiction.

He can no more cease to hate impurity than he can cease to love holiness: if he should in the least instant approve of anything that is filthy, in that moment he would disapprove of his own nature and being

In short, I submit your definition of GOD'S LOVE must ensure His love is HOLY. (Aside: His Love should not be in conflict with His other attributes either i.e. immutable)
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Okay let's agree to disagree. I believe God has not predestined people to go to hell.
 
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OSAS theology is an act of ventriloquism,and has LOTS of DUMMIES..........puppets!
May God forgive them for they KNOW not what they do,Amen!
 
Jackie I guess this is the best time to ask this: "speaking of dummies" (me lol) what does OSAS mean
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Irrelevant has the Spirit in Saul was not for that task of salvation and the subject is salvation ... I think we gone done a tangent to far to recover. ;)
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This is completely relevant to our discussion. You only need the presence of the Holy Spirit to be a 'new' person.
This is the scripture that Jesus had in mind when he was talking to Nicodemus:

"6The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person." - 1 Samuel 10:6

So you can see, this has everything to do with salvation and becoming a 'new' person.
You simply need the presence of the Holy Spirit to be a 'new' person.
It's just that in this New Covenant, He hangs around in the believer and doesn't come and go.
You do not need to be 'saved', as we view that, to be able to respond to and accept the things of the Spirit. You simply need the Spirit present to do that.

I feel compelled to tell you that there is a vast amount of knowledge that you do not know yet. Open up the doors of your doctrinal box that limits your present knowledge and check it out. Calvin did not corner the market on Biblical knowledge. Not even close.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
He won’t. That’s why I can never lose salvation and WILL continue to believe because as John said. I know I have eternal life
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No, you're misunderstanding the Bible.
But, I know, you are a victim of the this present end-time church.

Him not leaving you is why you should continue in him, not why you can never stop believing and lose your salvation. Hebrews explains this plainly.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Your hope is in your power to
Continue to believe
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Why do you continue to misrepresent my view?
Nobody has the power in and of themselves to trust in Christ.
You can only believe/trust in Christ through the power of God's gift of faith.
That's why the Bible tells us to hold on to faith.
You can't trust in Christ without it.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Aside: I am sympathetic to your position

I will use a silly example to ensure I understand your position.

We have a hypothetical person who is the model Christian in every way. (aside: which is much better than I am) But he believes he must give a nickel at Christmas to the "Help the Children Fund" or he will not be saved.
Aside: Yeah, I know a silly example, but it works for purpose of clarifying your position.

Aside: Acting as this guys lawyer I would state in his defense: My client sinned by incorrectly thinking he must give a nickel to the "Help the Children Fund"... but, as with his other sins, I state he is forgivenfor it is part of the gospel that God forgives all sins of believers. Defense rests.

Now the Question: In your opinion, is this guy salvifically saved?
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My answer

You will never find someone who think he has to just do this to be saved. In this case I am sure there are many things the person must do to be saved

In this case is their trust in their works

Or in the death of Christ

And it is in their works what makes them any different than the Pharisee who was always called out by Christ himself for thinking it was their works that saved them
 
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