"Not by works" - false!

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Chris1975 said:
OSAS = The Defence of the Sin Nature

As opposed to picking up your cross and dying daily.
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NOSAS is denial of sin, you judge murderers and child milestones. But you think your sin is ok, you excuse it while you pump your chest and thank God your not like the sinner,
 
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Fastfredy0 said:
You define favoritism by assuming God treats everyone the same (or at least I assume this definition). This is empirically shown to be incorrect as God choose Israel to be His favored people. He chooses some to be blind and other not. Some to hear the gospel, and others not. Thus, you have a contradiction.


If there is not reasoning to change your mind then a counter argument is pointless. I just state that one should let God tell us who He is and not us determine who He is. (Aside: If I thought God was 'fair' by my definition, then I would change a lot of things.)


Whoever does believe does get eternal life. God chooses some to believe. (Aside: there are ample verses saying man is not able to believe of his own power. There is no verse saying man can believe of his own free will meaning independent of God giving him faith. There are verses where God says you must believe and it is implied by that, that you can. But that is an implication that is shown to be false by many verses saying man isn't capable of believing on his own. Some counter this with a 'prevenient grace' (see gotquestions.com for definition), but biblical evidence for this is weak.

1John2:2"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world ".
The word WORLD is ambiguous. If WHOLE WORLD means everyone without exception then the verse is saying that everyone without exception has had their sin atoned. This is universalism which contradicts verses saying some go to hell.
John 14:17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive [and take to its heart] because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He (the Holy Spirit) remains with you continually and will be in you. .... If your definition of WORLD be consistent then this verse says no one can be saved.
Aside: Use a concordance and search for the word WORLD and insert your definition into the verse and you will see many conflicts and some impossibilities.
Aside2: This is heavy stuff to absorb ...takes a lot of study
Aside3: I could be wrong ... of course, I don't think I am .. ponder it
Aside4: Some try to keep their doctrine alive by saying Christ died for all our sins except the sin of unbelief. There is no explicit scripture to substantiate this claim.

Heb2:9"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone".
The word everyone and ALL have a similar explanation as the word WORLD. Use a concordance and search for the word ALL and insert your definition into the verse and you will see many conflicts and some impossibilities. Unfortunately, the word EVERYONE is not used sparingly so you can't do the same thing. But ALL and EVERYONE are synonyms.
Examples of ALL where it cannot mean everyone without exception:
  • Acts 26:4 Paul says, The Jews all know the way I have lived ever since I was a child, from the beginning of my life in my own country, and also in Jerusalem. Does he mean that every Jew without exception knew him? How about those who lived in the past and those who would live in the future?
  • Romans 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. “All” without exception would validate universalism.

Here is an explanation of the word all with an example:
An error occurs when there is confusion about whether we refer to a term in a collective sense, or a distributive sense. A collective sense means all the items are considered together as a whole. In a distributive sense, all the items are considered separately, one at a time. The tricky thing is that the word "all" can be used either way. When "all" is used collectively, it means "all together". When "all" is used distributivity, it means "each and every one." The difference is really important and can often be distinguished only from context.
.. Example... Jill says, "All motorcycles have two wheels. " Greg responds, "That's ridiculous. A single motorcycle has two wheels. And there are of 200,000,000 motorcycles in the world. Therefore, all motorcycles would have over 400,000,000 wheels. Thus the word ALL is ambiguous and often construed by one's bias.

Thanks for the response. I can understand where you are coming from. Many agree with you.
Sorry for the lengthy response.
Supper time.
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I used the words unfair and favoritism in the context of salvation, Most of the things that you mentioned are a topic for another day.

SALVATION is my emphasis
God is love and cares about the well being of mankind. He loves everyone and desires that all be saved. My description of God's character is not contrary to scripture. However, you describe God as an evil deity that desires some to go to hell. If God wants others to go to hell, then how is His character different from that of the devil.

It's good that Calvinism seeks to give God all the glory and the honor He deserves.The weakness in that perception is that calvinism seeks to give God the glory at the expense of
"God is love". The glory is also given to God when we share the gospel with everyone and see them as valuable in the eyes of God.

How will I be inspired to fight against tribalism, classism and racism if God has His own elite club?.

Well I want to give God the glory but I don't want to glorify an evil God.

1John4:10"This is love: not that we loved God, but He loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins".

John3:16" For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him may not perish but have eternal life".

"I will continue to make you known, so that the love YOU have for ME may be in them", these are the words of Jesus, I just forgot the particular text.

My brother, God loves you and everyone else:
He does not love you and sends others to hell.
He does not care about your well being and sends others to hell.
He does not choose you and considers others to be nobodies.
These doctrine is not healthy as it can create a sense of pride in the elect/elite.

According to you, the grace of God is irrisistable, which means He can send everyone to heaven.

I am not angry at you, nor do I hate you. I am just against your convictions about salvation(this is in regards to God choosing some and rejecting others)
 
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If you are born again,you will definitely know in your spirit.......he talks to our spirit.....how amazing is that.

Another thing....Faith.....I took my dog for a walk this morning.well into the walk I found to only have one poo bag...my dog always poos x2..further on in the walk....there was a clean poo bag on the pavement.....to me that bag was from God.....
Some may laugh at that,but God knew that I only had one poo bag,and provided the other one on the way.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Not true

thats true only if you place your living faith in Jesus,, if your faith is in self, well you have no security, let alone eternal security.
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I will argue like you all argue --- I believe in Jesus. Therefore I was saved at a point in time "back then". Therefore irrespective of whether I fall away from the faith now, or whether I NOW want to work for salvation, I CANNOT lose my salvation.
 
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God has kicked the enemy out of my mind now,regarding my salvation....my Lord has put a barrier up and Satan will never penetrate it again....”NEVER”. Praise God.

I will meet God in Heaven...on my death.
 
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jackrosie said:
According to God we cannot lose our salvation....and God doesn’t lie.
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You salvation journey STARTED the day you believed. It is not yet fully accomplished until you pass from this world or are raptured. If you draw away (Heb 10v38) at any point and die in that state, your journey ends without salvation.
 
jackrosie said:
God has kicked the enemy out of my mind now,regarding my salvation....my Lord has put a barrier up and Satan will never penetrate it again....”NEVER”. Praise God.

I will meet God in Heaven...on my death.
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Great !
Nobody is questioning your commitment.
But let the bible itself through God's Word (not Satan) guide you. And there are hundreds and hundreds of scriptures there for you, to guide you along the path of life.
 
Chris1975 said:
You salvation journey STARTED the day you believed. It is not yet fully accomplished until you pass from this world or are raptured. If you draw away (Heb 10v38) at any point, your journey ends without salvation.
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My salvation started when the Lord testified to my heart who he was...
He resides in my spirit...His spirit is entwined with mine.
Did you know that when a born again dies in the flesh.
Jesus takes our spirit which is entwined in His to Heaven....he has testified that to my Spirit.
 
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Chris1975 said:
Great !
Nobody is questioning your commitment.
But let the bible itself through God's Word (not Satan) guide you. And there are hundreds and hundreds of scriptures there for you, to guide you along the path of life.
Click to expand...


God guides me through his Spirit and his word.....I walk in the Spirit....if one isn’t born again....then they wouldn’t know this.
Has God testified to your spirit that you are his child?
 
jackrosie said:
My salvation started when the Lord testified to my heart who he was...
He resides in my spirit...His spirit is entwined with mine.
Did you know that when a born again dies in the flesh.
Jesus takes our spirit which is entwined in His to Heaven....he has testified that to my Spirit.
Click to expand...

And the Spirit he gives us, the Gift, who dwells in us, leads us in the following ways:

Romans 8
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies [d]through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
 
Chris1975 said:
And the Spirit he gives us, the Gift, who dwells in us, leads us in the following ways:

Romans 8
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies [d]through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
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Did God testify to your spirit that you are his child?

You can quote scripture..that doesn’t mean you are born again.....not you personally
 
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jackrosie said:
God guides me through his Spirit and his word.....I walk in the Spirit....if one isn’t born again....then they wouldn’t know this.
Has God testified to your spirit that you are his child?
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This is how we know if we are his children:

John 8
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
 
Chris1975 said:
This is how we know if we are his children:

John 8
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
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So,the Lord never testified to your spirit?

If he didn’t,you can’t be born again....no offence..you need to understand that the Holy Spirit resides in a believers heart...
 
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Chris1975 said:
I will argue like you all argue --- I believe in Jesus. Therefore I was saved at a point in time "back then". Therefore irrespective of whether I fall away from the faith now, or whether I NOW want to work for salvation, I CANNOT lose my salvation.
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You do not know our argument then and are just trolling

when you know what we believe come back. Maybe then we can have a real discussion
 
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