"Not by works" - false!

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DBurrage said:
I would like to contend that the notion that salvation is given to us ONLY in return for believing in Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior is INCOMPLETE.
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This is salvation by works ^^^^^^^^
Quid Pro Quo

Quid Pro Quo is not Grace
 
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Romans 2:12 - For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law 13 (for not the hearers of the Law [are] just in the sight of Yahweh, but the doers of the Law will be justified;

parish without the law, doers of the law??? what in the world is Paul talking about, does he not know the law was done away with and has nothing to do with salvation?
 
EleventhHour said:
This is salvation by works ^^^^^^^^
Quid Pro Quo

Quid Pro Quo is not Grace
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Belief in Jesus IS absolutely necessary for salvation.

However...

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

I have asked you this several times now:
Are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
 
EleventhHour said:
The new standard is the Sermon on the Mount... are you able to keep those commandments?
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Again, I'll answer your question(s) after you answer mine as I asked first.

This is about the 8th time I've asked you:

Are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
 
DBurrage said:
Again, I'll answer your question(s) after you answer mine as I asked first.

This is about the 8th time I've asked you:

Are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
Click to expand...

The answer is right here

1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2 Coronthians 3:1-6
 
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He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me (John 14:21).

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments (1 John 2:3).

I just made this a open book test. :)
 
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EleventhHour said:
The answer is right here

1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2 Coronthians 3:1-6
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You keep making the point that we are no longer justified by the law, but by Christ.
You are correct in this.

However, we must also keep God's commandments.
If we do not keep God's commandments after receiving Jesus into our lives, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover those sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

I think I've asked you enough times now to come to the conclusion that you are NOT going to answer my question:
Are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
 
DBurrage said:
You keep making the point that we are no longer justified by the law, but by Christ.
You are correct in this.

However, we must also keep God's commandments.
If we do not keep God's commandments after receiving Jesus into our lives, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover those sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

I think I've asked you enough times now to come to the conclusion that you are NOT going to answer my question:
Are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
Click to expand...

Need for what, salvation, No

We are talking about salvation correct?
 
Micaiah-imla said:
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me (John 14:21).

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments (1 John 2:3).

I just made this a open book test. :)
Click to expand...

We are talking about salvation.
Which is not a bilateral agreement
 
EleventhHour said:
Need for what, salvation, No

We are talking about salvation correct?
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Yes, we are talking about salvation.

For salvation we need 2 things:

1. Belief and faith in Jesus
Acts 16:30-31
" "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household" ".

AND

2. Keeping God's commandments
Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".
 
DBurrage said:
Yes, we are talking about salvation.

For salvation we need 2 things:

1. Belief and faith in Jesus
Acts 16:30-31
" "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household" ".

AND

2. Keeping God's commandments
Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".
Click to expand...

Well then I would state you have gravely misunderstood Hebrews 10:26
 
EleventhHour said:
We are talking about salvation.
Which is not a bilateral agreement
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"Which is not a bilateral agreement"

If it were not a bilateral agreement, that would imply that humans have to do nothing to achieve salvation.

This is NOT true.

In order to receive salvation humans must become Christians (i.e. follow Christ) and keep God's commandments.

Are you saying that people who don't follow Christ and don't keep God's commandments also receive salvation?
 
EleventhHour said:
More twisting... we do not promise to love God in order to receive salvation.
As well we love God because He first loved us.
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The first commandment you obey is believing the gospel.

This is your first love. And this first love produces the most zealous works for the Lord.
 
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