" Maybe its real and im just not Chosen "
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[="NOV25, post: 4369916, member: 291501"]Pretty sure I read here somewhere that you have a few small children. Bit of advice, head back to the prayer closet and the good book to worry about you and yours, less posting countless argumentative threads on the doctrines of grace, especially when you admit a lack of knowledge on the subject.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the patronising and overly personal message , if not slightly creepy ,thanks 👍
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I mean both. Some hear (those who have "ears to hear"), and some have ears, but hear not ("and having ears, hear ye not?").
I hope that you find peace and stop opening thread after thread about the same subject. I'm hoping to see your contributions on other subjects in the future and not just thrashing the same old ad nauseam.
Not sure what else to say.
I hope that you find peace and stop opening thread after thread about the same subject. I'm hoping to see your contributions on other subjects in the future and not just thrashing the same old ad nauseam.
Not sure what else to say.
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day John 6:39
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44
Then if only those predestined to come to Christ do so and no one whom he calls will be cast out, John 6:37, what about, John 6:66? “From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44
Then if only those predestined to come to Christ do so and no one whom he calls will be cast out, John 6:37, what about, John 6:66? “From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”
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If you took the time to go through my posts you would see ad nauseum the same verses being used out of context, over and over and over and over . You answer the first one ,then the next ( I think there is only about five ) you answer all five then they forget the first answer and we have to start over " many are called, few are chosen " " no one can come to me unless the Father draws ... he who has ears ...chosen before the foundation... round and round and round....
Consider the following (posted before):
[quoting old post]
Re: "many are called, but few chosen"
[call] G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name"
[call] G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon"
It is important to notice how EACH of these is used in BOTH [/EACH] the Matthew 22:1-14 passage AND the Romans 8:28,30 verses
G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name" -
Matthew 22:3 V-ANA
GRK: δούλους αὐτοῦ καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους
NAS: out his slaves to call those
KJV: servants to call them that were bidden
INT: servants of him to call those having been invited
Matthew 22:3 V-RPM/P-AMP
GRK: καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους εἰς τοὺς
NAS: those who had been invited to the wedding feast,
KJV: to call them that were bidden to
INT: to call those having been invited to the
Matthew 22:4 V-RPM/P-DMP
GRK: Εἴπατε τοῖς κεκλημένοις Ἰδοὺ τὸ
NAS: those who have been invited, Behold,
KJV: Tell them which are bidden, Behold,
INT: Say to those having been invited Behold the
Matthew 22:8 V-RPM/P-NMP
GRK: οἱ δὲ κεκλημένοι οὐκ ἦσαν
NAS: but those who were invited were not worthy.
KJV: but they which were bidden were
INT: those moreover having been invited not were
[these ^ had rejected the invitation/call, per vv.3,5,6]
Matthew 22:9 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἐὰν εὕρητε καλέσατε εἰς τοὺς
NAS: as you find [there], invite to the wedding feast.'
KJV: ye shall find, bid to
INT: if you shall find invite to the
Romans 8:30 V-AIA-3S
GRK: τούτους καὶ ἐκάλεσεν καὶ οὓς
NAS: He also called; and these
KJV: he also called: and whom
INT: these also he called and whom
G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon" -
Matthew 22:14 Adj-NMP
GRK: γάρ εἰσιν κλητοὶ ὀλίγοι δὲ
NAS: For many are called, but few
KJV: many are called, but few
INT: indeed are called few however
Romans 8:28 Adj-DMP
GRK: κατὰ πρόθεσιν κλητοῖς οὖσιν
NAS: to those who are called according
KJV: to them who are the called according
INT: according to [his] purpose called are
[note: the Matthew 22:1-14 passage is referring to the "guests [plural]" of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" i.e. the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth [NOT "our Rapture"], whereas the Romans 8 passage is referring to (that which pertains to) "the Church which is His body" (who is not "the guests [plural]"), so there's that distinction to be noted also--not that this makes much difference in how the words are used (re: call/invite)]
[quoting from BibleHub]
"In the NT, 2822 /klētós ("divinely called") focuses on God's general call – i.e. the call (invitation) He gives to all people, so all can receive His salvation. God desires every person to call out to Him and receive His salvation (1 Tim 2:4,5). "Unfortunately, many choose not to – but all can; all don't but all can call out to God for His mercy (not just 'some')" (G. Archer)." [source: Bible Hub]
[end quoting old post]
____________
Context is important to grasp, where this phrase ("many are called, but few chosen") is used (noted above, where I've pointed this out, particularly in the Matthew 22 context of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [the earthly MK age]... no, we are not presently "inviting" people to that[/MK age] as the "guests," we are presently presenting that which is related to and regarding "the MARRIAGE" itself--they are distinct. That is, the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" is not the "guests [PLURAL]"...
Revelation 19:7 pertains to the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" [re: "the MARRIAGE" itself, which is "aorist" and having occurred IN HEAVEN], but Revelation 19:9 is about the "invited guests [PLURAL]" [who will have been "having been invited" to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (i.e. the earthly MK age) all throughout/DURING the tribulation period years that lead UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth FOR the earthly MK age]--the "invitation" to THAT will go out FOLLOWING "our Rapture," meaning, DURING the 7-yr trib [Matt24:14/26:13, etc], and again, is distinct from the Rom8 two verses I pointed out.)
[quoting old post]
Re: "many are called, but few chosen"
[call] G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name"
[call] G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon"
It is important to notice how EACH of these is used in BOTH [/EACH] the Matthew 22:1-14 passage AND the Romans 8:28,30 verses
G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name" -
Matthew 22:3 V-ANA
GRK: δούλους αὐτοῦ καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους
NAS: out his slaves to call those
KJV: servants to call them that were bidden
INT: servants of him to call those having been invited
Matthew 22:3 V-RPM/P-AMP
GRK: καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους εἰς τοὺς
NAS: those who had been invited to the wedding feast,
KJV: to call them that were bidden to
INT: to call those having been invited to the
Matthew 22:4 V-RPM/P-DMP
GRK: Εἴπατε τοῖς κεκλημένοις Ἰδοὺ τὸ
NAS: those who have been invited, Behold,
KJV: Tell them which are bidden, Behold,
INT: Say to those having been invited Behold the
Matthew 22:8 V-RPM/P-NMP
GRK: οἱ δὲ κεκλημένοι οὐκ ἦσαν
NAS: but those who were invited were not worthy.
KJV: but they which were bidden were
INT: those moreover having been invited not were
[these ^ had rejected the invitation/call, per vv.3,5,6]
Matthew 22:9 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἐὰν εὕρητε καλέσατε εἰς τοὺς
NAS: as you find [there], invite to the wedding feast.'
KJV: ye shall find, bid to
INT: if you shall find invite to the
Romans 8:30 V-AIA-3S
GRK: τούτους καὶ ἐκάλεσεν καὶ οὓς
NAS: He also called; and these
KJV: he also called: and whom
INT: these also he called and whom
G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon" -
Matthew 22:14 Adj-NMP
GRK: γάρ εἰσιν κλητοὶ ὀλίγοι δὲ
NAS: For many are called, but few
KJV: many are called, but few
INT: indeed are called few however
Romans 8:28 Adj-DMP
GRK: κατὰ πρόθεσιν κλητοῖς οὖσιν
NAS: to those who are called according
KJV: to them who are the called according
INT: according to [his] purpose called are
[note: the Matthew 22:1-14 passage is referring to the "guests [plural]" of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" i.e. the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth [NOT "our Rapture"], whereas the Romans 8 passage is referring to (that which pertains to) "the Church which is His body" (who is not "the guests [plural]"), so there's that distinction to be noted also--not that this makes much difference in how the words are used (re: call/invite)]
[quoting from BibleHub]
"In the NT, 2822 /klētós ("divinely called") focuses on God's general call – i.e. the call (invitation) He gives to all people, so all can receive His salvation. God desires every person to call out to Him and receive His salvation (1 Tim 2:4,5). "Unfortunately, many choose not to – but all can; all don't but all can call out to God for His mercy (not just 'some')" (G. Archer)." [source: Bible Hub]
[end quoting old post]
____________
Context is important to grasp, where this phrase ("many are called, but few chosen") is used (noted above, where I've pointed this out, particularly in the Matthew 22 context of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [the earthly MK age]... no, we are not presently "inviting" people to that[/MK age] as the "guests," we are presently presenting that which is related to and regarding "the MARRIAGE" itself--they are distinct. That is, the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" is not the "guests [PLURAL]"...
Revelation 19:7 pertains to the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" [re: "the MARRIAGE" itself, which is "aorist" and having occurred IN HEAVEN], but Revelation 19:9 is about the "invited guests [PLURAL]" [who will have been "having been invited" to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (i.e. the earthly MK age) all throughout/DURING the tribulation period years that lead UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth FOR the earthly MK age]--the "invitation" to THAT will go out FOLLOWING "our Rapture," meaning, DURING the 7-yr trib [Matt24:14/26:13, etc], and again, is distinct from the Rom8 two verses I pointed out.)
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I think it would be hard to comprehend the meaning of a single verse out of context, don't you?
While in context we may better understand. Or at least have a starting point to do so. God willing.
Matthew 5
The Sermon on the Mount
The Beatitudes
1 And when He saw the multitude, He went up into a mountain. And when He was set, His disciples came to Him.
2 And He opened His mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled.
7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.
10 “Blessed are those who suffer persecution for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
11 “Blessed shall you be when others revile you, and people utter all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
12 “Rejoice and be glad! For great is your reward in Heaven! For so they persecuted the Prophets who were before you.
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt has lost his savor, how shall it be salted? It is thereafter good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trampled underfoot by men.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 “Nor does anyone light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick. And it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father Who is in Heaven.
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law, or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them.
18 “For truly I say to you, until Heaven and Earth perish, not one jot or one tittle of the Law shall escape, till all things are fulfilled.
19 “Therefore, whoever shall break one of these least commandments, and teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever shall observe and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
20 “For I say to you, unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of the old time, ‘You shall not murder’. For whoever murders shall be culpable of judgment.
22 “But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother unadvisedly, shall be culpable of judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca’, shall be worthy to be punished by the Council. And whoever shall say, ‘Fool’, shall be worthy to be punished with hell fire.
23 “If, then, you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24 “leave your offering there before the altar and go your way. First, be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
25 “Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, and the judge delivers you to the sergeant, and you are cast into prison.
26 “Truly I say to you, you shall not come out from there, till you have paid the last coin.
27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old time, ‘You shall not commit adultery’.
28 “But I say to you, that whoever looks on a woman to lust after her, has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 “So if your right eye causes you to offend, pluck it out and cast it from you. For better it is for you that one of your members perish, than that your whole body should be cast into hell.
30 “Also if your right hand makes you offend, cut it off, and cast it from you. For better it is for you, that one of your members perish, than that your whole body should be cast into hell.
31 “It has been said also, ‘Whoever shall divorce his wife, let him give her a bill of divorcement’.
32 “But I say to you, whoever shall divorce his wife (except for promiscuity) causes her to commit adultery. And whoever shall marry her who is divorced, commits adultery.
33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to those of old time, ‘You shall not swear false oaths, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord’.
34 “But I say to you do not swear at all, neither by Heaven (for it is the throne of God)
35 “nor by the earth (for it is His footstool), nor by Jerusalem (for it is the city of the great King).
36 “Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 “But let your communication be ‘Yes, yes. No, no.’ For whatever is more than these, comes from evil.
38 “You have heard that it has been said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.”
39 “But I say to you do not resist evil. But whoever shall strike you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 “And if anyone would sue you, and take away your coat, let him have your cloak also.
41 “And whoever will compel you to go a mile, go with him two.
42 “Give to one who asks, and do not turn away from one who would borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it has been said, ‘You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy’.
44 “But I say to you love your enemies. Bless those who curse you. Do good to those who hate you. And pray for those who hurt you and persecute you,
45 “so that you may be the children of your Father, Who is in Heaven. For He makes His sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain on the just and unjust.
46 “For if you love those who love you, what reward shall you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 “And if you are only friendly to your brothers, what singular thing do you do? Do not even the tax collectors do likewise?
48 “You shall therefore be perfect, as your Father, Who is in Heaven, is perfect.”
While in context we may better understand. Or at least have a starting point to do so. God willing.
Matthew 5
The Sermon on the Mount
The Beatitudes
1 And when He saw the multitude, He went up into a mountain. And when He was set, His disciples came to Him.
2 And He opened His mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled.
7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.
10 “Blessed are those who suffer persecution for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
11 “Blessed shall you be when others revile you, and people utter all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
12 “Rejoice and be glad! For great is your reward in Heaven! For so they persecuted the Prophets who were before you.
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt has lost his savor, how shall it be salted? It is thereafter good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trampled underfoot by men.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 “Nor does anyone light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick. And it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father Who is in Heaven.
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law, or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them.
18 “For truly I say to you, until Heaven and Earth perish, not one jot or one tittle of the Law shall escape, till all things are fulfilled.
19 “Therefore, whoever shall break one of these least commandments, and teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever shall observe and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
20 “For I say to you, unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of the old time, ‘You shall not murder’. For whoever murders shall be culpable of judgment.
22 “But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother unadvisedly, shall be culpable of judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca’, shall be worthy to be punished by the Council. And whoever shall say, ‘Fool’, shall be worthy to be punished with hell fire.
23 “If, then, you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24 “leave your offering there before the altar and go your way. First, be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
25 “Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, and the judge delivers you to the sergeant, and you are cast into prison.
26 “Truly I say to you, you shall not come out from there, till you have paid the last coin.
27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old time, ‘You shall not commit adultery’.
28 “But I say to you, that whoever looks on a woman to lust after her, has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 “So if your right eye causes you to offend, pluck it out and cast it from you. For better it is for you that one of your members perish, than that your whole body should be cast into hell.
30 “Also if your right hand makes you offend, cut it off, and cast it from you. For better it is for you, that one of your members perish, than that your whole body should be cast into hell.
31 “It has been said also, ‘Whoever shall divorce his wife, let him give her a bill of divorcement’.
32 “But I say to you, whoever shall divorce his wife (except for promiscuity) causes her to commit adultery. And whoever shall marry her who is divorced, commits adultery.
33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to those of old time, ‘You shall not swear false oaths, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord’.
34 “But I say to you do not swear at all, neither by Heaven (for it is the throne of God)
35 “nor by the earth (for it is His footstool), nor by Jerusalem (for it is the city of the great King).
36 “Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 “But let your communication be ‘Yes, yes. No, no.’ For whatever is more than these, comes from evil.
38 “You have heard that it has been said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.”
39 “But I say to you do not resist evil. But whoever shall strike you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 “And if anyone would sue you, and take away your coat, let him have your cloak also.
41 “And whoever will compel you to go a mile, go with him two.
42 “Give to one who asks, and do not turn away from one who would borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it has been said, ‘You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy’.
44 “But I say to you love your enemies. Bless those who curse you. Do good to those who hate you. And pray for those who hurt you and persecute you,
45 “so that you may be the children of your Father, Who is in Heaven. For He makes His sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain on the just and unjust.
46 “For if you love those who love you, what reward shall you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 “And if you are only friendly to your brothers, what singular thing do you do? Do not even the tax collectors do likewise?
48 “You shall therefore be perfect, as your Father, Who is in Heaven, is perfect.”
[addressing Post #77]
^ Consider the following:
these next few verses are in the IMPERATIVE [/commands]:
--"be [imperative] ye therefore merciful as your father is also merciful" Luke 6:36
--"be [imperative] ye therefore ready..." Luke 12:40 [context re: "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal (G347), (i.e. the earthly MK age)]
--"be [imperative] ye therefore sober..." 1 Peter 4:7
--"be [imperative] ye therefore wise [/as shrewd] as serpents, harmless as doves" Matthew 10:16
... but the following verse (your verse, under discussion) is NOT in the "imperative," but instead says,
"be ye therefore [/ye shall be - future INDICATIVE] perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48
[consider also: the Matthew 5:48 verse is in the context of the subject being spoken of, "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (which is earthly-located)--see vv.3,5,10,19,20, in this particular chpt]
^ Consider the following:
these next few verses are in the IMPERATIVE [/commands]:
--"be [imperative] ye therefore merciful as your father is also merciful" Luke 6:36
--"be [imperative] ye therefore ready..." Luke 12:40 [context re: "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal (G347), (i.e. the earthly MK age)]
--"be [imperative] ye therefore sober..." 1 Peter 4:7
--"be [imperative] ye therefore wise [/as shrewd] as serpents, harmless as doves" Matthew 10:16
... but the following verse (your verse, under discussion) is NOT in the "imperative," but instead says,
"be ye therefore [/ye shall be - future INDICATIVE] perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48
[consider also: the Matthew 5:48 verse is in the context of the subject being spoken of, "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (which is earthly-located)--see vv.3,5,10,19,20, in this particular chpt]
Actually, when a stand alone instruction for a specific act isn't understood, then the person claiming that they can't comprehend it isn't because it is out of context, especially if one is perfect before the Comforter.
In context we can understand your response based upon the instruction, "... be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you" regarding the question presented in my original post "So when does a person know when they are perfect, then did the master not tell if they don't know the truth about being perfect?"
Luke 6:46 wouldn't apply if there was no instruction to be perfect, I would end with this, it is your house so build it wherever you want to.
In context we can understand your response based upon the instruction, "... be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you" regarding the question presented in my original post "So when does a person know when they are perfect, then did the master not tell if they don't know the truth about being perfect?"
Luke 6:46 wouldn't apply if there was no instruction to be perfect, I would end with this, it is your house so build it wherever you want to.