Loss of salvation???

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Musicmaster said:
That's all you have in your arsenal? You have no solid backing for your groundless claims? My responses are dull because you can't handle proving otherwise? No need to read beyond that first couple of sentences given that you're just now willing to uphold your responsibility for evidence.

Oh well...

That is very telling. That's one way to tuck tail and run!

MM
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Rhetoric instead of Scriptural work. Meaningless.
 
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Toknow said:
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;


What will happen if God denies us?
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He will deny us reign with Him. Simple.

We have eternal life. We can be a private or a general for Him.....Our choice.
1 Tim 6:15
which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
 
Toknow said:
The NT seems very clear to me.
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​

Proverbs 3:5-6
​

Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.
​

Isaiah 55:8
​

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.​


What is clear to you may not be what it means.....

Some things require learning a good deal of things before what may seem clear to you is cleared up
 
Toknow said:
First, let me congratulate and thank Administration for changing how the reply mechanism works.
Just enter at the last word we wish to reply to
and viola!!!
here we are.


Notice that we must HEAR the word
and BELIEVE on Him

Hear in Greek means to take action.
Believe means to obey.

Both are in the present tense.

NOTHING can pluck us out of God's hand.

But we can walk out since we did not lose our free will.


We must BELIEVE on His name.
His name means that Jesus has all authority.

I refer you to the meaning of BELIEVE...

which apparently you do not know.

We must have HEARD from the Father
and
LEARNED from the Father.

Again,
BELIEVE is in the present tense.
We must be believing in God at the time of our death.

There's a reason why BELIEVE is in the presnt tense.
Because PAST belief is useless since it could be lost.
NO OSAS in the NT


You are posting repeats.
It's OK.
There are no verses that you wish existed.

We must HEAR the word....take action.
You like the Greek....go find out what HEAR means.

And we must BELIEVE.
Ditto.


We must BELIEVE on the Son.

If we do NOT believe, we will see God's wrath.

WHENEVER that disbelief occurs.


So?
We hear the voice of Jesus.
We are His sheep.
His sheep hear His voice.

Where is the eternal security idea here ?

Believers do not obey satan.
We are the slave of the one to whom we present ourselves.
Romans 6:16

IF we obey satan...we will cease to be a believer.


Agreed.
No problem here.
No talk of never losing salvation.


Repeating again.

I know.
Not anything really in the NT to prove OSAS.

Know why PennEd?

Because it's NOT BIBLICAL.

REPEATING AGAIN.

THIS IS BAD.

we certainly can jump out of God's hand.
We did not lose free will.


Sorry Sir.

You're repeating to make it look like a long list.

Let me assure you:

THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT PROVES OSAS.

Why?

BECAUSE OSAS IS NOT BIBLICAL AND THE BIBLE DOES NOT CONTRADICT ITSELF.


I'd say you failed.

Let's see what the other member comes up with.
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Well, I agree with you and others that believe you can lose your Salvation.

You certainly can!

I thank the Lord for those of us that KNOW we can’t!

BECAUSE, we KNOW the One who saved us and keeps us saved, and more importantly He KNOWS us!

So congratulations! You win! YOU, can lose your Salvation!
 
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sawdust said:
It was the Lord God who decided how you would be saved and by what means. We never gave Him permission to do anything. If we have believed in Him we have simply agreed with Him that He is true to His word.
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I agree with this. God came to me, I didn't go to Him. He made me aware that His Word was in fact truth, the only thing I did was to decide not to resist Him. I wanted to know the truth, and that was the truth.

Much love!
 
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Musicmaster said:
The only conflict in my quoting verses 13 is with your injection, once again, the element of salvation loss into the texts such as thise verse 12. If denial of salvation were the Lord's meaning, with His need for you to come along to save the day by injecting salvation into that text for all our derstanding, that is a system of hermeneutics that makes the Bible out to having been mastered by only a small hand full of people; leaving the rest of us to wallow around in ignorance until someone like you comes along to straighten us all out. Your words lean toward making the Lord out to be incapable of clearly speaking His meaning.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Look at that verse. What is the topic therein? It clearly is NOT salvation. It's clearly speaking about REIGNING with Christ that will be denied those who deny Christ. There's nothing there about salvational loss!

This strange fetish of injecting salvation into any and all textual meaning wherever it happens to allegedly bolster your case, that seriously calls into question much of your belief system.

MM
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Denying Him does not have to mean we deny believing in Christ to be saved.

He is the Word.
It is denying His Word for a given situation because in puts someone in an uncomfortable place in their mind to do it.

Denying Him can mean a stubbornly refusing correction from the Word when shown and placed in it's correct context.

Denying Him could mean one knows what the Word tells us, but too scared to be as the Word tells us to be.

etc....
 
Toknow said:
Because JESUS taught that OSAS does not exist...
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All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise
them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him
shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:37-40
 
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Genez said:
Denying Him does not have to mean we deny believing in Christ to be saved.

He is the Word.
It is denying His Word for a given situation because in puts someone in an uncomfortable place in their mind to do it.

Denying Him can mean a stubbornly refusing correction from the Word when shown and placed in it's correct context.

Denying Him could mean one knows what the Word tells us, but too scared to be as the Word tells us to be.

etc....
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Denying Him.......Is the belief of loss/forfeiting salvation.
 
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Toknow said:
It's not scary.
You have to WANT to not live the "gospel life" as you put it.

You have to want to stay with Jesus and allow the Holy Spirit to live in you.

It IS your choice.
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Exactly! He gives you a choice, some continue and some fall away…..

My point is that OSAS is faulty, not from God.
 
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Kroogz said:
And absolutely NONE say loss of salvation,eternal life or the Son was unsealed.

You folks cannot see the discipline of God. You just want to toss believers into the lake of fire.

At least He is willing that none perish. Thank God it's not up to the loss of salvation crowd........YOU would be the only one saved.
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Many verses are understood as implied.

Like his eyes are the color of rich soil, which means dark brown. “Dark brown” wasn’t implicitly stated, but it was understood!
 
Genez said:
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise
them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him
shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:37-40
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This is like the argument on whether drinking is drunkenness!

It’s a matter of the comprehension of grammar vs (prohibitions of men)…. 😐
 
TruthDefender said:
Did you not read it?

Many are called, but few are chosen! I believe the logic in this is that all are supposed Christians, but some have missed the mark.
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The called are the saved!

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified;
those he justified, he also glorified. Romans 8:30

Called = Justified!

That means what?
Many are saved.

But!

Out of the many?
Only a few of the saved will be chosen to reign with Him.
 
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TruthDefender said:
Many verses are understood as implied.

Like his eyes are the color of rich soil, which means dark brown. “Dark brown” wasn’t implicitly stated, but it was understood!
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That is what the loss of salvation crowd has......."rich soil" could mean loss of salvation.

Never perish means never perish.

No condemnation means no condemnation.

Imperishable is imperishable.

Nothing can separate us from the love of Christ means nothing can.

Simple, straight forward language.......And meant to be that way, because we are babies after salvation. Daddy wants us to KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.

Religious, self righteous prigs would love to steal that from His children.
 
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