Loss of salvation???

[Toknow]

I will give you an example, you said it was bad if I did not try and obey each and every command of Christ in the gospels. It seems it turns out you do not try and obey them all. My conscience would not let me be like that

HOW do you know what I do?
WHY is this so personal to you?

Can we just keep this to theology and keep out the personal questions and comments?

 

[Toknow]

You assume much. I never said we shouldn't obey. You don't seem to be able to distinguish the difference between salvation by grace that produces obedience and salvation by means of obedience.

You are assuming much.

No one is saying we shouldn't obey; only that obedience is a by-product of a heart that has been changed.[/QUOTE]
Well, saying that obedience is a by-product is not what Jesus taught.

He didn't say obedience is a by- product. If you have verses, I'd like to see them (really).
He said OBEY ME.

John 15:14
14 You are My friends if you do what I command you

Luke 11:28
28But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

John 14:21
21Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me.

 

[Toknow]

1 Cor 5:5
deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Interesting ....
but nor for now...
too late here for heavy stuff.
If you remind me tomorrow....

1 Cor 3:15
If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet only so as through fire.

This has to be the most misunderstood passage in the NT...or close to it.

1. Catholics use this to prove purgatory.

2. Protestants use this to show that we could sin all we want and we will still make heaven...

Just barely...

But we will get there.

is THIS what you believe?
Number 1 or number 2??

You are proving my point, BTW.
Those that fight against the word MUST or against stating that we are to do good works...
have some kind of agenda. Maybe number 2 ??

 

[Just_A__Follower]

This is not a joke Just.

Those that ask HOW MANY SINS....

may not mean what they're asking...
but it sure does sound like they're trying to get right to the dividing line....
(between saved and unsaved).

If obedience is required for salvation, there must be a clear line, otherwise there’s no assurance.

 

[Cameron143]

You are assuming much.

No one is saying we shouldn't obey; only that obedience is a by-product of a heart that has been changed.

Well, saying that obedience is a by-product is not what Jesus taught.

He didn't say obedience is a by- product. If you have verses, I'd like to see them (really).
He said OBEY ME.

John 15:14
14 You are My friends if you do what I command you

Luke 11:28
28But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

John 14:21
21Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. [/QUOTE]
Great verses, but none of them say obedience leads to salvation.

Ephesians 2:8...saved by grace. It doesn't say...for by obedience you are saved.

You are conflating obedience as the cause of salvation, and not as an outcome of salvation.

 

[Kroogz]

So what works must we do not to be cut off from Christ, can you tell me?

One itsy bitsy sin and believers are cut off from Christ. We lose fellowship. 1 John 1:9 and we are are no longer cut off.

The loss of salvation crowd has all corrections,discipline, tough language, firm language....meaning "loss of salvation." Yet we never see believers losing their eternal life.

 

[Genez]

If obedience is required for salvation, there must be a clear line, otherwise there’s no assurance.

There is only one issue God requires our obedience for...

​

​

Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, ​

which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed ​

his seal of approval.”​

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

John 6:27-29​

......

 

[Just_A__Follower]

(just don't get any tattoos)

How many tattoos is too many?

 

[Genez]

How many tattoos is too many?

On a woman?

How many is too many for you?

I have seen some pretty ones.

 

[sawdust]

2. Protestants use this to show that we could sin all we want and we will still make heaven...

That's not true. No Protestant worth their salt teaches this.

 

[Toknow]

If obedience is required for salvation, there must be a clear line, otherwise there’s no assurance.

Are you depending on Jesus
or are you depending on the law?

Your assurance is that you believe in Jesus...
you believe in His salvific work....
you believe in the resurrection.

If you BELIEVE in jesus...you will obey Him.
That's all that is required.

To give pushback to someone stating that we must obey God...
is like stating that we do not have to obey God.

At least, that's how it seems to me.
Again...I don't understand why this is debated.

 

[Toknow]

How many tattoos is too many?

On a woman?

ONE.

 

[Toknow]

Well, saying that obedience is a by-product is not what Jesus taught.

He didn't say obedience is a by- product. If you have verses, I'd like to see them (really).
He said OBEY ME.

John 15:14
14 You are My friends if you do what I command you

Luke 11:28
28But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

John 14:21
21Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me.

Great verses, but none of them say obedience leads to salvation.

Ephesians 2:8...saved by grace. It doesn't say...for by obedience you are saved.

You are conflating obedience as the cause of salvation, and not as an outcome of salvation.[/QUOTE]
I see.

So you like to read only Ephesians 2:8 and ignore the rest of the bible??

Do you like:


Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


if you are doing good works...
you are obeying God.

And, just to clarify because this strawman keeps coming up....
We are saved by God's grace through faith.

This discussion is about those that are saved.

Those that are NOT saved, are not required to obey God.

 

[studier]

There is only one issue God requires our obedience for...

​

​

Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, ​

which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed ​

his seal of approval.”​

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

John 6:27-29​

......

Initial salvation verses, no?

 

[Genez]

2. Protestants use this to show that we could sin all we want and we will still make heaven...

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 holds the key, and should answer it for you.

 

[Genez]

Initial salvation verses, no?

What did you mean by that?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

On a woman?

How many is too many for you?

I have seen some pretty ones.

Just in general. Would it go by number of individual tats or overall area of coverage?

I’ve actually heard people that that if you get a tattoo you’ll go to hell so I guess one is too many to them.

 

[Genez]

Great verses, but none of them say obedience leads to salvation.

Ephesians 2:8...saved by grace. It doesn't say...for by obedience you are saved.

You are conflating obedience as the cause of salvation, and not as an outcome of salvation.
I see.

So you like to read only Ephesians 2:8 and ignore the rest of the bible??

Do you like:


Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


if you are doing good works...
you are obeying God.

And, just to clarify because this strawman keeps coming up....
We are saved by God's grace through faith.

This discussion is about those that are saved.

Those that are NOT saved, are not required to obey God.

Being told to believe, and we do?

Is obedience.

 

[Genez]

Just in general. Would it go by number of individual tats or overall area of coverage?

I’ve actually heard people that that if you get a tattoo you’ll go to hell so I guess one is too many to them.

Are you a tattoo gourmet?

 

[James456]

Any nice thing you do for God is a work.

Jesus said to do good deeds [and not bad deeds].
This is how we serve God.

By offering everything we do for God.

Matthew 5:16
16In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.


Colossians 3:23-25
. 23 Whatever you do, do your work [y]heartily, as for the Lord and not for people,

24 knowing that it is from the Lord that you will receive the reward [z]of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

25 For the one who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and [aa]that without partiality.


Romans 6:16
16 Do you not know that the one to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of that same one whom you obey, either of sin [r]resulting in death, or of obedience.

Well I was hoping for a list