Loss of salvation???

[Toknow]

I see your non-biblical soteriology has not changed.

My belief system, which is what the NT teaches, will never change.

SOLA FIDE is a man-made idea that comes from the reformation.

It was never a part of the church and is not accepted by mainline Christianity.

 

[HeIsHere]

My belief system, which is what the NT teaches, will never change.

SOLA FIDE is a man-made idea that comes from the reformation.

It was never a part of the church and is not accepted by mainline Christianity.

Well your loss.... I hope you have enough faithfulness/works/belief/faith whatever it is you think you have to add to THE CROSS and the Completed Work of Christ Jesus, to keep your salvation and merit heaven.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Only Catholics practice water baptism?
What can I say?

But this is nice.
It means that the Catholics got this right !

And you should never ASSUME anything about anyone...
you know why, right?

I'm Protestant.
The kind that knows Christian theology and does not make her very own religion
by eisegeting the New Testament.

ALL Christian denominations that are orhtodox (mainline) believe in
WATER baptism.

Here are some:

BAPTISTS
PENTECOSTALS
CATHOLIC
ORTHODOX
ANGLICAN
EPISCOPALIAN
LUTHERAN
PRESBYTERIAN
ASSEMBLY OF GOD
NAZARENE

It’s way easier to just list the two that don’t:
Quakers
Salvation Army.

 

[Toknow]

Well your loss.... I hope you have enough faithfulness/works/belief/faith whatever it is you think you have to add to THE CROSS and the Completed Work of Christ Jesus, to keep your salvation and merit heaven.

Interesting that you posted the word MERIT.

Here is what is needed to be saved:
1. Belief in God.
2. Obedience.


The cross is what will save you.
Jesus, whom you now believe you're following,
taught that we are to do good works.


if we do not do good works...we will be lawless - not following Jesus' commandments.

Here is what Jesus said will happen to the lawless:


Matthew 7.23
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

 

[HeIsHere]

Interesting that you posted the word MERIT.

Here is what is needed to be saved:
1. Belief in God.
2. Obedience.


The cross is what will save you.
Jesus, whom you now believe you're following,
taught that we are to do good works.


if we do not do good works...we will be lawless - not following Jesus' commandments.

Here is what Jesus said will happen to the lawless:


Matthew 7.23
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

How much obedience, yes the perennial question no one can answer.

 

[Ouch]

I point out where you are wrong on one verse and now you’re ready to move on. I don’t believe in luck. I would love to discuss further with you but if your mind is closed it will make no difference what truth i point out.

If you’re willing let’s look at a few verses starting with Matt 3:16-17
“And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭
Here we see Jesus(Son), the Spirit(Holy Spirit), and the voice from Heaven(Father). We see 3 distinct persons acting simultaneously. How would you explain this?

Next let’s look at John 17:1-5
“These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭
Who is Jesus praying to here? Himself?

Then in John 14:26 we read
“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭
Again we see 3 distinct persons Comforter(Holy Spirit), sent by the Father in My name(Son).

And a verse that you’ve already posted Matt 28:19
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
‭‭
Did Jesus say “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in My name”? No

Now let’s take a look at the history of God being taught as being only one person as you claim. It didn’t start til around 1913. So essentially you claim that for over 1800 years people’s beliefs were wrong.

The big question that you have to ask yourself is this: Should we learn from what the imperfect student did or from what the perfect Teacher taught?

Are we now off of traslations????

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Yes HE said "IN THE NAME OF" what is the name of?

I know it gets and sounds confusing, but JESUS was 100% human and 100% GOD.

That is why we have to put ALL of HIS word together.

John 1:1
King James Version
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Matthew 28:18
King James Version
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Let me ask you, did JESUS disciples obey HIM as they baptized in JESUS name?

Or did they KNOW WHO HE WAS?

John 14,
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Philip was telling HIM, show us the fater and it will make us happy!!

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Why did they baptized in JESUS name ONLY????

Because THEY KNEW WHO JESUS was, and baptized the way JESUS told them to.

I only learn from HIS WORD.

 

[Ouch]

ouch

You said that you believe Jesus is God.

That's ONE GOD.


Then you said that while Jesus was on earth....God creator, Father,
was in heaven.

That's TWO GODS.

So you believe in at least two Gods.
I thought you were Christian??

The Christian RELIGION teaches that there is only one God.
It is a monotheistic religion.


Maybe you're of a different religion?

When you say I said "while Jesus was on earth....God creator, Father,
was in heaven."

Are you refering to John 3:13??

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

While JESUS was on this earth, HE was speaking, HE said "even the Son of man which is in heaven."

So where was JESUS to you? On earth or in Heaven OR BOTH?

 

[Toknow]

How much obedience, yes the perennial question no one can answer.

How much obedience.
The perennial odd question asked by those that do not understand what Jesus taught.

Are you proclaiming, on this thread,
that it is not necessary/required to obey Jesus' commandments?

Another question for those that post as you do would be this:
HOW MUCH SINNING and DISOBEYING JESUS could one do and still "get away with it".

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Interesting that you posted the word MERIT.

Here is what is needed to be saved:
1. Belief in God.
2. Obedience.


The cross is what will save you.
Jesus, whom you now believe you're following,
taught that we are to do good works.


if we do not do good works...we will be lawless - not following Jesus' commandments.

Here is what Jesus said will happen to the lawless:


Matthew 7.23
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

True faith produces obedience. It is a reflection of the faith, not a separate condition for salvation. The tree produces the fruit. The fruit does not produce the tree. Faith produces obedience. Obedience does not produce faith.

 

[HeIsHere]

How much obedience.
The perennial odd question asked by those that do not understand what Jesus taught.

Are you proclaiming, on this thread,
that it is not necessary/required to obey Jesus' commandments?

Another question for those that post as you do would be this:
HOW MUCH SINNING and DISOBEYING JESUS could one do and still "get away with it".

So no answer then.
God's standard is perfect righteousness, innocence and obedience (in the Bible) He will not accept less.
So basically you are just fooling yourself think you can behave at that level.

 

[Toknow]

When you say I said "while Jesus was on earth....God creator, Father,
was in heaven."

Are you refering to John 3:13??

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

While JESUS was on this earth, HE was speaking, HE said "even the Son of man which is in heaven."

So where was JESUS to you? On earth or in Heaven OR BOTH?

No sir.
John 3:13 is not what I'm referring to.

Go back and read my post.
Apparently you didn't understand it and are going down some rabbit hole.

I'm not following you there.

 

[HeIsHere]

True faith produces obedience. It is a reflection of the faith, not a separate condition for salvation. The tree produces the fruit. The fruit does not produce the tree. Faith produces obedience. Obedience does not produce faith.

So if someone falters in obedience they do not have true faith?

 

[Toknow]

True faith produces obedience. It is a reflection of the faith, not a separate condition for salvation. The tree produces the fruit. The fruit does not produce the tree. Faith produces obedience. Obedience does not produce faith.

Agreed.

But you said "true faith"....
there are different types of faith?

There is always some confusion on this topic.

You say faith produces obedience.
That obedience includes doing good works.

Another member is asking how many good works are necessary..which means he does not understand this
concept at all.

So a quick question would be this:

Does Jesus teach good works or not?
Do we obey Jesus or not?
Do we do good works or not?

 

[Toknow]

So if someone falters in obedience they do not have true faith?

You said FALTERS.

To falter means to fall, to lose balance....
we all falter.

Maybe you could rephrase the question?

 

[Toknow]

So no answer then.
God's standard is perfect righteousness, innocence and obedience (in the Bible) He will not accept less.
So basically you are just fooling yourself think you can behave at that level.

I don't read that in the NT.

What I read is this:

1 John 1:8-9
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


I don't know of any teaching that states that we have to be perfect.

 

[HeIsHere]

I don't read that in the NT.

What I read is this:

1 John 1:8-9
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


I don't know of any teaching that states that we have to be perfect.

Was the sacrifice without blemish?

 

[HeIsHere]

You said FALTERS.

To falter means to fall, to lose balance....
we all falter.

Maybe you could rephrase the question?

So a little missteps are okay because we all do it..that is your reasoning?

 

[sawdust]

I notice you are changing your wording.

When you say this, show me it in scripture!!

"We are baptized into Christ where our sins are remitted by His blood"

Don't just tell me it's true, Prove it's true.

Already have. You simply ignore what is written.

I was not debating, I was telling you if you wanted to prove what you say is true.

That is not debating it's all on you.

Been there, done that, many times already. You are the one arguing with what's written.

Be simple if you didn't deflect questions, but that's what people do when what they say does not match what JESUS says.

I gave you what Jesus said but you prefer your interpretation what Peter said.

 

[HeIsHere]

Another member is asking how many good works are necessary..which means he does not understand this
concept at all.

Oh I understand perfectly.. the problem is you have no answer.

But I can wait..maybe tomorrow.

 

[Toknow]

Was the sacrifice without blemish?

Please respond with scripture.

Matthew 25:41-46
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’
44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [e]take care of You?’
45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


Jesus will judge us on what we have done.