O
Loss of salvation???
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I had Ai format my thoughts here so it would be easier to digest...Please Notice if all ungodly men were atoned for and that means justified...God has sworn that those He justified He will glorify...This is our Covenantal Father doing everything to ensure He losses no one; not even one of His kids that Satan corrupted...He remembers Adam before the fall (us) when Adam was His perfect Son (image).
How the Atonement (Justification) Accomplished All- Universal Justification (Atonement):
- At the cross, Messiah’s death, blood, and life were accepted by the Father as the once-for-all payment.
- This act was universal — gifted to all ungodly men without merit, contrition, or human effort.
- By this, Christ redeemed all humanity from slavery to sin and death, securing peace with God.
- This is the foundation: God alone initiated salvation through the Atonement.
- Invitation to Sanctification (New Birth):
- Justification opens the door, but only those who accept God’s covenant invitation enter sanctification.
- The New Birth is given only to those being sanctified — those who receive His Spirit.
- In sanctification, the Spirit indwells us, transforming us into Christ’s image, and empowering us to walk in the works He prepared.
- Our overcoming is by His blood and the word of our testimony, not by our own strength.
- Glorification Guaranteed by the Atonement:
- God has sworn: those He justified, He will glorify.
- At judgment, He will purge all sin and present us as though we had never sinned.
- Even those who resist sanctification may face temporal punishment (Hell as purging fire), but ultimately they too will be humbled, purified, and glorified — because the Atonement was God’s unilateral act.
- God’s Covenant Faithfulness Displayed:
- The Mosaic covenant exposed human sinfulness and became a covenant of death, but the Father of Mercy and Justice fulfilled His unconditional covenant through the Atonement.
- Christ, as our Kinsman Redeemer, took our place, defeated death, and hid us in Himself.
- The Atonement was the “failsafe” from before the beginning — Christ crucified was God’s eternal plan to ensure His children (made in His image) would be brought home.
- Even temporal punishments (Adam, Cain, Pharaoh) reveal God’s parental love — judgment is corrective, not final separation.
- Textual Witness (Hebrew vs. Greek):
- The Septuagint stylized Hebrew covenantal language into Greek constructs, but it never predated or displaced the Hebrew OT.
- In the same way, the abundance of Greek NT manuscripts does not prove Greek originality.
- The NT is saturated with Hebraic chiasms, idioms, and covenantal imagery, pointing to Hebrew primacy.
- Greek manuscripts often abstract concepts into “faith” as human belief, while Hebrew manuscripts emphasize God’s faithfulness in the Atonement.
- Example: John 1 in Sephardic Hebrew manuscripts says “The Son” rather than “The Word,” keeping the covenantal focus intact.
- For manuscript evidence and study, see HebrewGospeldotcom, which highlights the surviving Sephardic Hebrew NT manuscripts and their covenantal constructs.
The Big Picture- Justification (Atonement) is the fountainhead: universally accomplished, inviting all into sanctification.
- Sanctification (New Birth) is given only to those who accept the covenant invitation and receive His Spirit.
- Glorification is guaranteed for all who were justified, whether through sanctification now or eventual purging later.
- God’s covenant faithfulness ensures the plan cannot fail — Christ crucified was the eternal failsafe.
- Textual witness confirms the Hebraic foundation of both OT and NT, resisting the claim that Greek abundance equals originality.
The New Covenant was made between God the Father and God the Son. We didn't make it, we can't break it. God Bless All
I had Ai format my thoughts here so it would be easier to digest...Please Notice if all ungodly men were atoned for and that means justified...God has sworn that those He justified He will glorify...This is our Covenantal Father doing everything to ensure He losses no one; not even one of His kids that Satan corrupted...He remembers Adam before the fall (us) when Adam was His perfect Son (image).
How the Atonement (Justification) Accomplished All- Universal Justification (Atonement):
- At the cross, Messiah’s death, blood, and life were accepted by the Father as the once-for-all payment.
- This act was universal — gifted to all ungodly men without merit, contrition, or human effort.
- By this, Christ redeemed all humanity from slavery to sin and death, securing peace with God.
- This is the foundation: God alone initiated salvation through the Atonement.
- Invitation to Sanctification (New Birth):
- Justification opens the door, but only those who accept God’s covenant invitation enter sanctification.
- The New Birth is given only to those being sanctified — those who receive His Spirit.
- In sanctification, the Spirit indwells us, transforming us into Christ’s image, and empowering us to walk in the works He prepared.
- Our overcoming is by His blood and the word of our testimony, not by our own strength.
- Glorification Guaranteed by the Atonement:
- God has sworn: those He justified, He will glorify.
- At judgment, He will purge all sin and present us as though we had never sinned.
- Even those who resist sanctification may face temporal punishment (Hell as purging fire), but ultimately they too will be humbled, purified, and glorified — because the Atonement was God’s unilateral act.
- God’s Covenant Faithfulness Displayed:
- The Mosaic covenant exposed human sinfulness and became a covenant of death, but the Father of Mercy and Justice fulfilled His unconditional covenant through the Atonement.
- Christ, as our Kinsman Redeemer, took our place, defeated death, and hid us in Himself.
- The Atonement was the “failsafe” from before the beginning — Christ crucified was God’s eternal plan to ensure His children (made in His image) would be brought home.
- Even temporal punishments (Adam, Cain, Pharaoh) reveal God’s parental love — judgment is corrective, not final separation.
- Textual Witness (Hebrew vs. Greek):
- The Septuagint stylized Hebrew covenantal language into Greek constructs, but it never predated or displaced the Hebrew OT.
- In the same way, the abundance of Greek NT manuscripts does not prove Greek originality.
- The NT is saturated with Hebraic chiasms, idioms, and covenantal imagery, pointing to Hebrew primacy.
- Greek manuscripts often abstract concepts into “faith” as human belief, while Hebrew manuscripts emphasize God’s faithfulness in the Atonement.
- Example: John 1 in Sephardic Hebrew manuscripts says “The Son” rather than “The Word,” keeping the covenantal focus intact.
- For manuscript evidence and study, see HebrewGospeldotcom, which highlights the surviving Sephardic Hebrew NT manuscripts and their covenantal constructs.
The Big Picture- Justification (Atonement) is the fountainhead: universally accomplished, inviting all into sanctification.
- Sanctification (New Birth) is given only to those who accept the covenant invitation and receive His Spirit.
- Glorification is guaranteed for all who were justified, whether through sanctification now or eventual purging later.
- God’s covenant faithfulness ensures the plan cannot fail — Christ crucified was the eternal failsafe.
- Textual witness confirms the Hebraic foundation of both OT and NT, resisting the claim that Greek abundance equals originality.
B
Blue155
Guest
I find it amazing how people such as yourself believe the hundreds or more of translators got it wrong, as if you’re the one who has came to the right conclusion on what they were really supposed to mean and say.
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Blue155
Guest
There is virtually NO chance of that ever happening...
Acts 10:15
The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
Romans 8:39
No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I've been buried with Christ and so I will be raised in His Glory. My faith or lack thereof is immaterial...it's all about what Messiah accomplished at the Atonement for me, you us.
Colossians 3:3-4
For ye are dead, and your life is hidden with Christ in God; and when Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
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Blue155
Guest
If two people are just bombarding some kind of text AI generator to just blindly respond to each other’s AI comments and arguments, then it’s not really a discussion. It’s more of a loop between AI style programs. It becomes less about the truth and more about whose AI can deliver the better responses.
There are two aspects to the Christian experience. "Salvation" is a misused term. If use the word "deliverance" instead, it helps us to understand better.
The initial experience of the true believer is to be born again. Anyone who is not born again cannot even see the kingdom of God, let alone enter it.
To be born again is instant and irreversible. We receive a new, eternal spirit. It is the spirit where Jesus dwells. He has promised never to leave us or forsake us.
"Salvation" has come to be Christian code for "go to heaven when you die." Some put many conditions on this, as if eternal life is not really eternal. I say baloney. You nitpickers won't find that word in the Bible.
If we use deliverance instead, it makes more sense. Peter calls "deliverance" the goal of our faith. James expands on this and says that God's word is the means to deliverance. Jesus said that His word, which is the truth, will set us free.
We need to have our minds renewed. This is one function of God's word as applied to us by the Holy Spirit.We come into the Christian life with all kinds of preconceived notions. An unrenewed mind will argue with the truth.
Another issue is self will. God wants us to be flexible enough to do His bidding in any way, at any time and solely to His glory. That takes time and, usually, some hard experiences.
MY Bible tells me that I am seated together with Christ in heavenly realms. (Ephesians 2:6). If you are not in heaven now, you won't be there when this life comes to an end.
So what is the big deal about the Christian walk? Can't we live as we please and just go to heaven when we die? It's not that simple. Anyone who is born again has a whole new outlook on life. We hate sin. Deep down, we want to please God. There will be a struggle, especially at first. There will be times when we do not understand. Every for real believer will face a "Gethsemane" moment when God's will is the opposite of what we want. Some stumble at that point.
Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith. Some take the long way round to get there, but Jesus has not failed yet.
Well...anytime there is a translation from the original, by necessity there is a loss of information; and additional info added that wasn't in the original manuscript.
The Greek for instance in John 1 says the Word, the Word, the Word (abstract), whereas the Hebrew Sephardic manuscripts say the Son, the Son, the Son (Covenantal).
Greek is abstract and emphasizes my faith, my covenantal loyalty and so that my Salvation hinges on my faithfulness...whereas the Hebraic view is the opposite...(Relational, Covenantal) it emphasizes God's faithfulness, His Covenantal loyalty who acted on our behalf (ALONE) as our Kinsman Redeemer.
Western Greekyness just loves having "you" be the qualifier to receive "your Salvation" whereas the Hebraic view has "our Salvation" guaranteed by the qualified Life of Messiah. I think I will rest in what He Alone has accomplished at the cross...Atonement for ungodly men (Justified) with the Promise of a God Who CAN NOT lie..."those HE justified He will glorify"...no Greeky meism qualifiers that people love so much!
HebrewGospel.com will elucidate your understanding that the NT was originally written in Hebrew and then translated into Greek. There are many scholars who hold this view because the NT is rife with Hebraisms and chiasms and idioms ect...yes there are many thousands of more Greek manuscripts (that because they were needed once the number of gentiles grew), but that doesn't equate to being original; it's just the mainstream scholarly consensus...and as Everyone Knows...they are never wrong! Ha ha ha ha!!
The Septuagint was a OT translation but not many fools would say it predated the OT Hebrew...this mainstream scholarly view is majorly biased...they have numerous more Greek manuscripts, but the Hebraic has everything else; so much more if fairly weighted...it not though.
I like what you said, and you said it better than most here...
I think one thing is too often conflated and jumbled all up in the understanding of Salvation. From a Greek lens things get somewhat skewed.
Hebraic vs Greek mindset...a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation could be avoided if we viewed the NT via the Hebraic lens....not the Greek lens.
Hebraic worldview: Concrete, relational, covenantal.
Greek worldview: Abstract, juridical, metaphysical.
Anytime there is a translation from the original, by necessity there is a loss of information; and additional info is added that wasn't in the original manuscript.
The Greek for instance in John 1 says the Word, the Word, the Word (abstract), whereas the Hebrew Sephardic manuscripts say the Son, the Son, the Son (Covenantal).
Greek is abstract and emphasizes my faith, my covenantal loyalty and so that my Salvation hinges on my faithfulness...whereas the Hebraic view is the opposite...(Relational, Covenantal) it emphasizes God's faithfulness, His Covenantal loyalty who acted on our behalf (ALONE) as our Kinsman Redeemer.
Western Greekyness just loves having "you" be the qualifier to receive "your Salvation" whereas the Hebraic view has "our Salvation" guaranteed by the qualified Life of Messiah. Rest in what He Alone has accomplished at the cross...Atonement for ungodly men (Justified) with the Promise of a God Who CAN NOT lie..."those HE justified He will glorify"...no Greeky meism qualifiers that people love so much!
HebrewGospel.com will elucidate a better understanding that the NT was originally written in Hebrew and then translated into Greek.
There are many scholars who hold this view because the NT is rife with Hebraisms and chiasms and idioms ect...yes there are many thousands of more Greek manuscripts (that because they were needed once the number of gentiles grew), but that doesn't equate to being original; it's just the mainstream scholarly consensus...and as Everyone Knows...they are never wrong! Ha!
The Septuagint was an OT translation into Greek but not many fools would say it predated the OT Hebrew...this mainstream scholarly Greek view is majorly biased...they have numerous more Greek manuscripts, but the Hebraic has everything else; so much more if fairly weighted...it not though.
If you be in Christ...you can't become out of Christ...ever!
When Christ died on the cross he died for the sins of the ungodly men (of which we all are-Romans says no one is righteous). The Atoning death of Christ on our behalf gifted all ungodly men a right standing with the Father; that's called Justification.
Romans 8:30 (ESV):
“And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.”
We also often conflate the commandments given by Moses (so confusion is the result) but we are now under the Law of Messiah (LOM) which is a higher law than the Mosaic Law which says "you must love your neighbor as yourself" whereas LOM says "you shall love your neighbor as I have loved you" = higher law and greater Grace...God is interested in our growth in the Spirit, so when we break His Law, we confess our sin, and He Graciously forgives us so we can realign with His Spirit to enable us to walk in His Ways (Covenantal Relationship).
First century Jewish Believers continued to follow Torah not as a means of righteousness because Messiah had already accomplished this; but as a covenantal lifestyle that had been now illuminated by Messiah.
Gentiles knew they were not required to subject themselves to observe the Torah because of the freedom they now had in Christ. Gentile Believers could have observed Torah had they wished, but they saw no point in doing so. Jewish believers choose to observe not as a means of attaining righteousness but as a covenantal lifestyle.
Both Jews and Gentiles were never mandated to follow the Torah, but both Jews and Gentiles were free to do so if they choose...the Jewish Believers choose to and the Gentile Believers choose not to, and both were free and in right standing with the Lord if they did or didn't.
One Gospel but two distinct groups that together make the one "New Man" the NT speaks about.
Both groups are under the Law of Messiah now; some Mosaic Laws carried over to the Law of Messiah and some did not. This Law of Messiah is a higher Law, and it also provides greater Grace for those who fall short...because God is interested in our transformation into His likeness.
The disciples were Jewish believers who were also observing Torah, Shabbat and the Feast of the Lord ect. Paul and Peter both had been instructed that the Gentiles were now included into this New Covenant and that they would not be required to follow Torah; nor were the Jewish Believers, they simply chose too.
One Gospel, two groups and the freedom for both groups to observe Torah or not; Messiah is Torah manifested.
What is your point...my point is the OT Hebrew predates the Septuagint Translation and that not many fools would attest that it predates OT Hebrew? The same can be said of the Greek NT which is a translation from the original Hebrew.
Hebrew/Aramaic evidence: Strong internal fingerprints (idioms, chiasms, poetry, early testimony) suggest Semitic roots.
Greek evidence: Strong external survival (papyri, codices) shows Greek as the dominant transmission language.
Josephus logic: Survival bias doesn’t prove originality. The absence of Hebrew NT manuscripts today doesn’t mean they never existed — it only means they didn’t survive.
We know Josephus wrote the History of the Jews 1,000 yrs before the first surviving book was found. The same with the Hebrew Sephardic manuscripts...they are the first surviving manuscripts of the original Hebrew NT which the Greek NT translation was written.
Timeline Comparison
Period Script/Translation Key Details
10th–7th century BCE Paleo-Hebrew script Used for early biblical texts (e.g., Ketef Hinnom scrolls with Numbers blessing).
6th century BCE Aramaic square script Began replacing Paleo-Hebrew after Babylonian exile.
3rd century BCE Septuagint (LXX)Greek translation of the Hebrew Pentateuch, created in Alexandria for Jewish diaspora.
1st century BCE–1st century CE Dead Sea Scrolls Preserve both square script and Paleo-Hebrew fragments, showing overlap and reverence for the old script.
Key Points
Paleo-Hebrew predates the Septuagint by several centuries.
The Septuagint was not an original script but a translation into Greek, intended for Jews living outside Judea who no longer spoke Hebrew fluently.
Some Septuagint manuscripts even preserve the divine name (YHWH) in Paleo-Hebrew script, showing continuity between traditions.
By the time of the Septuagint, Hebrew texts were already being copied in the square Aramaic script, but Paleo-Hebrew remained symbolic in sacred contexts.
The Septuagint is a translation of Hebrew texts (originally written in Paleo-Hebrew and later square script) into Greek.
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Blue155
Guest
Are you implying that for hundreds or thousands of years, people have misunderstood the Bible?
The original Hebrew predates the LXX, but that doesn't exist anymore. The earliest Hebrew manuscript we have dates to 1000-1100 AD
No...I am saying it.
one example...
Mathew 23:1-3
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.
In the Hebrew Sephardic manuscripts this verse says "to do whatever Moses says to do"
You get a skewed wrong idea from the Greek here would you not say? AND you get what Christ actually said in the Hebrew.
Salvation from the abstract me centric Greek NT lens is based on your response, your (continued) faithfulness, Belief and loyalty...the New Covenant was provided because we are faithless...He is Faithfull.
The Hebraic NT lens has the onus on our Kinsman Redeemer who ALONE provided Atonement for ungodly men, so they now stand Justified by the works of Christ on the cross and His free gift of Atonement (Justification). If your salvation depends on you at any time you are screwed...BUT the Good News it's Not; it hinges on the Finished work of Christ and His righteousness imputed to us.
Those He Justified He Will Glorify...
Our Eternal Salvation:
Greek lens = me centric
Hebrew lens = Christ centric
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Blue155
Guest
That’s what I thought. So, you and a handful of others are the only ones who are able to understand the Bible correctly, while for hundreds or thousands of years, people did not. Got it.
Goodbye.
This is totally
Round ???
Caveman vs Blue155
Topic:?
Winner: None
Loser: All
The Truth: we shall see