Loss of salvation???

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The correct question is does God state He will undo it?....... and where does He clarify how, when and at what point?
He doesn't.

They will invent all manner of doctrines to try and back their false beliefs. Dare ano
what did Jesus say later? back to square one with you. Jesus sent the disaiples to preach all he did and say to EVERYONE you just refuse to acknowledge this fact ans also that Peter was appointed by God to preach to the gentiles act 15:7
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

I explained all this already why do you continue to contradict and ignore valid scripture?.

I also shared with you that Acts shows the apostles still in Jerusalem almost 30 years after the Ascension. They stayed there because the Kingdom Gospel declined in relevance after the fall of Israel through our continued rejection of Christ Jesus as our Messiah. So, my disagreement is with you, not the scriptures.

Additionally, I also showed to you the fact that those who dispersed out from Jerusalem preached ONLY to Jews.

MM
 
They will invent all manner of doctrines to try and back their false beliefs. Dare ano


I also shared with you that Acts shows the apostles still in Jerusalem almost 30 years after the Ascension. They stayed there because the Kingdom Gospel declined in relevance after the fall of Israel through our continued rejection of Christ Jesus as our Messiah. So, my disagreement is with you, not the scriptures.

Additionally, I also showed to you the fact that those who dispersed out from Jerusalem preached ONLY to Jews.

MM
i am not doing this again, i did reply fully to this and even went to well known historian for their integrity as historians, you simply wont listen all i wrote is VALID i read the post no in post no, 3647 but i think you never read it.
 
i am not doing this again, i did reply fully to this and even went to well known historian for their integrity as historians, you simply wont listen all i wrote is VALID i read the post no in post no, 3647 but i think you never read it.

Historians who rely on stories from traditions, as does Roman Catholicism and other pagan religions, there is always degrees of error. When writing my thesis for my Th.D, I was constantly pressed to remain free of writings based upon traditions unless the point being made was to compare the traditional story against what can be known as being more empirical.

So, back to the topic of this thread...loss of salvation, rooted in tradition handed down to Protestantism from Roman Catholicism's works-based system of salvation, is utterly false, and here is why:

Galatians 1:11-12 — But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Some believe there is only one and the same gospel going back through John the Baptist, regardless of the differences that exist in Peter's Gospel of the Kingdom in Acts 2 and Pauls Gospel of Grace in 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

What's so easily overlooked is verses like the one above. Paul was persecuting the early church comprised of converted Jews following Jesus, which was before Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus. He persecuted them on the basis of the Kingdom Gospel preached by the twelve to the circumcized, the very gospel that he learned from men, not from Christ directly.

As stated in the verse above, what Paul later preached, after his conversion, was only what Jesus had revealed to him, not what men taught from the Kingdom Gospel to Israel. This proves, along with other texts, that Pauls gospel was not the same gospel as that preached by the twelve. They both rest upon the same foundation of faith in Christ Jesus and what He accomplished on the cross, but beyond that, the similarities cease.

This, then, renders null and void the singular gospel craze that's more rooted in replacement theology than an honest, exegetical reading of scripture for what it clearly says.

Can anyone deny this without drifting off into fables from writers applying their lack of expertise in calling out fabled traditions not written and verified by true historians and certainly not inspired as is scripture? The twelve remained in Jerusalem for up to 30 years, with their disciples being dispersed out into the world because of persecutions during those three decades, preaching ONLY to fellow Jews, NOT to Gentiles. Why that's so hard for some to grasp, additionally showing to us two different gospels, it smacks of a desire to believe what one WANTS to believe in the face of failure to rightly divide the word of truth.

Two gospels...one rooted in the Mosaic Law [as demonstrated by the believing Jews being "zealous" for that Law] and other NOT rooted in the Law but rather grace. Both gospels with similar foundation of Christ Jesus, but also with distinctives. Ignoring the distinctives only to call them both one and the same is like calling a Chevy by the Ford name simply because they both can use internal combustion engines as their means for locomotion.

MM
 
i am not doing this again, i did reply fully to this and even went to well known historian for their integrity as historians, you simply wont listen all i wrote is VALID i read the post no in post no, 3647 but i think you never read it.

Also, please don't give up on this so easily. We are all fallible, and are therefore in need of one another to hopefully be steel sharpening steel.

MM
 
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What does having one's name blotted out of the book of life mean?

And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life. Philippians 4:3
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Revelation 3:5

Those who overcome will not only keep their name in the Book of Life because they are believers, but will receive greater blessings from God and greater experience because Jesus will confess their name before His Father.

It is a positive announcement stated but stated in the negative to make it an even stronger declaration.
 
Acts 21:20 “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Torah.”


Galatians 1:6–9 there is but one Gospel — the Good News of God’s kingdom and salvation through Messiah.

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!”

First century Jewish Believers continued to follow Torah not as a means of righteousness because Messiah had already accomplished this; but as a covenantal lifestyle that had been now illuminated by Messiah.

Gentiles knew they were not required to subject themselves to observe the Torah because of the freedom they now had in Christ. Gentile Believers could have observed Torah had they wished, but they saw no point in doing so. Jewish believers choose to observe not as a means of attaining righteousness but as a covenantal lifestyle.

Both Jews and Gentiles were never mandated to follow the Torah, but both Jews and Gentiles were free to do so if they choose...the Jewish Believers choose to and the Gentile Believers choose not to, and both were free and in right standing with the Lord if they did or didn't.

One Gospel but two distinct groups that together make the one "New Man" the NT speaks about.

Both groups are under the Law of Messiah now. Some Mosaic Laws carried over to the Law of Messiah and some did not. Where it was said to "love your neighbor as yourself "it had been upgraded into the higher Law of Messiah which says you shall "love your neighbor as I have loved you". This higher Law also provides greater Grace for those who fall short...because God is interested in our transformation into His likeness.

The disciples were Jewish believers who were also observing Torah, Shabbat and the Feast of the Lord ect. Paul and Peter both had been instructed that the Gentiles were now included into this New Covenant and that they would not be required to follow Torah; nor were the Jewish Believers, they simply chose too.

One Gospel, two groups and the freedom for both groups to observe Torah or not; Messiah is Torah manifested.
 
So how EXACTLY, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, are we supposed to be able to lose our SALVATION?
 
Those who overcome will not only keep their name in the Book of Life because they are believers, but will receive greater blessings from God and greater experience because Jesus will confess their name before His Father.

It is a positive announcement stated but stated in the negative to make it an even stronger declaration.

This is one of the many problems reading the NT through a western Greek mindset...it does not mean eternal damnation.

Hebraic worldview: Concrete, relational, covenantal. Being remembered = life and blessing; being blotted out = exclusion from God’s people.
Greek worldview: Abstract, juridical, metaphysical. Being written = eternal salvation; being blotted out = eternal condemnation.
 
So how EXACTLY, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, are we supposed to be able to lose our SALVATION?
I do not believe you can “lose” salvation as in like “whoops! I lost it..where’d it go?”

But I do believe in the same way we can choose life (Deut. 30:19; cf. Mt. 11:28; Rev. 22:17; Acts 2:37-40, etc), one who chooses to become a child of God can also choose to walk away and abandon God (1 Jn. 1:6; Gal. 5:3-4; Heb. 3:14, 6:4-6, 10:26-29; Jn. 15:6; 2 Peter 2:1-2, 22, etc etc).

When one turns from the truth, the brethren should try to turn one back for the saving of his soul (Jms. 5:19-20), and the individual would need to repent from his sin (Acts 8:22).

I do believe in the eternal security of the believer for those who follow Jesus (Jn. 10:27). But not the impossibility of apostasy.

Peace.
 
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So how EXACTLY, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, are we supposed to be able to lose our SALVATION?

If you be in Christ...you can't become out of Christ...ever!

When Christ died on the cross he died for the sins of the ungodly men (of which we all are-Romans says no one is righteous). The Atoning death of Christ on our behalf gifted all ungodly men a right standing with the Father; that's called Justification.

Romans 8:30 (ESV):

“And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.”

We often conflate the commandments given by Moses (so confusion is the result) but we are now under the Law of Messiah (LOM) which is a higher law than the Mosaic Law which says "you must love your neighbor as yourself" whereas LOM says "you shall love your neighbor as I have loved you" = higher law and greater Grace...God is interested in our growth in the Spirit, so when we break His Law, we confess our sin, and He Graciously forgives us so we can realign with His Spirit to enable us to walk in His Ways.
 
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I do not believe you can “lose” salvation as in like “whoops! I lost it..where’d it go?”

But I do believe in the same way we can choose life (Deut. 30:19; cf. Mt. 11:28; Rev. 22:17; Acts 2:37-40, etc), one who chooses to become a child of God can also choose to walk away and abandon God (1 Jn. 1:6; Gal. 5:3-4; Heb. 3:14, 6:4-6, 10:26-29; Jn. 15:6; 2 Peter 2:1-2, 22, etc etc).

When one turns from the truth, the brethren should try to turn one back for the saving of his soul (Jms. 5:19-20), and the individual would need to repent from his sin (Acts 8:22).

I do believe in the eternal security of the believer for those who follow Jesus (Jn. 10:27). But not the impossibility of apostasy.

Peace.

If you be in Christ...you can't become out of Christ...ever!

When Christ died on the cross he died for the sins of the ungodly men (of which we all are-Romans says no one is righteous). The Atoning death of Christ on our behalf gifted all ungodly men a right standing with the Father; that's called Justification.

Romans 8:30 (ESV):

“And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.”

We often conflate the commandments given by Moses (so confusion is the result) but we are now under the Law of Messiah (LOM) which is a higher law than the Mosaic Law which says "you must love your neighbor as yourself" whereas LOM says "you shall love your neighbor as I have loved you" = higher law and greater Grace...God is interested in our growth in the Spirit, so when we break His Law, we confess our sin, and He Graciously forgives us so we can realign with His Spirit to enable us to walk in His Ways.
 
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If you be in Christ...you can't become out of Christ...ever!

When Christ died on the cross he died for the sins of the ungodly men (of which we all are-Romans says no one is righteous). The Atoning death of Christ on our behalf gifted all ungodly men a right standing with the Father; that's called Justification.

Romans 8:30 (ESV):

“And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.”

We often conflate the commandments given by Moses (so confusion is the result) but we are now under the Law of Messiah (LOM) which is a higher law than the Mosaic Law which says "you must love your neighbor as yourself" whereas LOM says "you shall love your neighbor as I have loved you" = higher law and greater Grace...God is interested in our growth in the Spirit, so when we break His Law, we confess our sin, and He Graciously forgives us so we can realign with His Spirit to enable us to walk in His Ways.

"The law of Messiah?"
 

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Paul is speaking to Christians.

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.”

I said anyone who was trying to attain salvation or righteousness via observance of the Mosaic Law...and Severed is a Greek view meant to mean as in permanently separated...that's not what Paul is saying.

That's the western Greek view. Which is wrong. Severed here is the same as when Paul said to excommunicate the fella sleeping with his stepmom. Noticed the kid was restored back into fella-ship once he got his mind right.

Hebraic vs Greek mindset...a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation could be avoided if we viewed the NT via the Hebreic lens....not the Greeky lens
 
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So how EXACTLY, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, are we supposed to be able to lose our SALVATION?

If you be in Christ...you can't become out of Christ...ever!

When Christ died on the cross he died for the sins of the ungodly men (of which we all are-Romans says no one is righteous). The Atoning death of Christ on our behalf gifted all ungodly men a right standing with the Father; that's called Justification.

Romans 8:30 (ESV):

“And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.”

We often conflate the commandments given by Moses (so confusion is the result) but we are now under the Law of Messiah (LOM) which is a higher law than the Mosaic Law which says "you must love your neighbor as yourself" whereas LOM says "you shall love your neighbor as I have loved you" = higher law and greater Grace...God is interested in our growth in the Spirit, so when we break His Law, we confess our sin, and He Graciously forgives us so we can realign with His Spirit to enable us to walk in His Ways.
 
I do not believe you can “lose” salvation as in like “whoops! I lost it..where’d it go?”

But I do believe in the same way we can choose life (Deut. 30:19; cf. Mt. 11:28; Rev. 22:17; Acts 2:37-40, etc), one who chooses to become a child of God can also choose to walk away and abandon God (1 Jn. 1:6; Gal. 5:3-4; Heb. 3:14, 6:4-6, 10:26-29; Jn. 15:6; 2 Peter 2:1-2, 22, etc etc).

When one turns from the truth, the brethren should try to turn one back for the saving of his soul (Jms. 5:19-20), and the individual would need to repent from his sin (Acts 8:22).

I do believe in the eternal security of the believer for those who follow Jesus (Jn. 10:27). But not the impossibility of apostasy.

Peace.

Thanks Bro: great informative comments!
 
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