Loss of salvation???

[Beckworth]

I'll start here and try to be brief. Again, my point was not to derail things but just to point out the value of lexical studies since such was brought up.

I agree with your statement just above. 1Pet3:21 does say that baptism saves us. It looks to me like the flow of the language is water = that which corresponds to baptism = appeal/formal request to God from/for good conscience through/by means of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

As you can see, I'm not taking dogmatic positions on the underlined but just showing some more options of where this can go. At quick glance I'd look at Scriptures that seem to tie true faith to a good conscience (from good conscience) and/or the cleansing of conscience by the one-time sacrifice of Jesus Christ (for good conscience).

But what does seem clear from looking through lexical work and associated words in Scripture is that rather than "answer" or "pledge" this baptism is an appeal - a formal request (BDAG Lexicon) - to God. So, I think I'd be starting with your #3 and working from there. There is some work that may tie this formal request to prayer.

This doesn't answer all the arguments re: baptism but IMO there are so many contested points in all of these discussions that the only way to start narrowing down to final answers is to use all means of and tools for interpretation to know what each verse is actually saying.

This discussion reminds me of another passage that may go along with this in meaning, and that is Acts 22:16 where Ananias tells Saul to “Arise, and be baptized and wash away your sins, CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD. Isn’t this the same thing as making an “appeal” as in 1 Peter 3? We are calling on God to save us, forgive our sins, etc. we know it’s not just speaking His name Matthew 7:21. We are appealing to His word and his power, and authority. Colossians 2:12 says, “..buried with Him in baptism…through faith IN THE WORKING OF GOD. We have faith in God, His word, and His promises. Baptism is God’s work. We “submit” to it, but God does the work; we have faith in Him and His word. We have faith in the working of God.

We are discussing baptism, but baptism is for “believers.” Mark 16:16 and Acts 8:36-37. So with out faith, baptism is useless. Faith must come first and it is an absolute requirement as Jesus says in Mark 16:16. Lest someone say we believe in baptism ONLY. Not so.

 

[Cameron143]

Is there a scripture that says this? Or is this just your opinion? The book of Hebrews contrasts the new covenant which is the New Testament with the old covenant or Old Tesrament. It says Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant. Chaoters 8 and 10 both state that God made a new covenant with His people not like the old one that is in the Old Testament and in this new covenant which is the law of Christ in the New Testament, He will forgive us of our sins. So my understanding is that the covenant is between us and God or Christ. What kind of covenant are you talking about between God and Christ?
A “covenant “ is simply an “agreement, “ a contract. And there are many different kinds, even in the Bible.

There was the “covenant” of circumcismin Genesis 17:13; a covenant of peace, Numbers 25:12; Job made a covenant with his eyes, Job 3:1; the covenant Godmakes with us when He takes away our sins, Roman’s 11:27. This is the covenant I was referring to when at baptism, we “pledge”. 1 Peter 3:21. So you see, there are many different kinds of covenants spoken of in the Bible.. I just never heard of or don’t remember one spoken of between God the Father and God the Son. Scripture, please.

It's the covenant of grace spoken of in Genesis 3, when God promises redemption through the seed of the woman...Jesus...He will save His people from their sins...Matthew 1:21.

Initially, Adam is the representative of the human race. God gave him a covenant with basically 1 requirement: don't eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He failed. As a result, all mankind became subject to death.

Time goes on until the fulness of time is come...Galatians 4:4...and Jesus is born of a woman. Unlike the first Adam, He has over 600 laws to keep in order to redeem those who were under the law. He does so and fulfills all righteousness while suffering and dying, shedding His blood for the remission of sins.

We did not come face to face with God, as Israel did, and enter into agreement with God. Jesus entered into covenant with God. The Father set the terms, chose Jesus to be His servant...servant songs in Isaiah, and Jesus fulfilled all that was required to redeem a people for Himself.

We enter into the covenant by grace through faith. Unlike what many would have us believe, we do nothing to fulfill the covenant. Nor is anything expected of us to enter in. Jesus did all that was necessary. We simply enter through belief. This is why Jesus answered in John 6 to the question...what shall we do that we might work the works of God...that you believe on Him whom He hath sent.

When we believe we do receive the benefits of the covenant, but we do so without ever entering into an agreement or covenant with God.

 

[GWH]

This discussion reminds me of another passage that may go along with this in meaning, and that is Acts 22:16 where Ananias tells Saul to “Arise, and be baptized and wash away your sins, CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD. Isn’t this the same thing as making an “appeal” as in 1 Peter 3? We are calling on God to save us, forgive our sins, etc. we know it’s not just speaking His name Matthew 7:21. We are appealing to His word and his power, and authority. Colossians 2:12 says, “..buried with Him in baptism…through faith IN THE WORKING OF GOD. We have faith in God, His word, and His promises. Baptism is God’s work. We “submit” to it, but God does the work; we have faith in Him and His word. We have faith in the working of God.

We are discussing baptism, but baptism is for “believers.” Mark 16:16 and Acts 8:36-37. So with out faith, baptism is useless. Faith must come first and it is an absolute requirement as Jesus says in Mark 16:16. Lest someone say we believe in baptism ONLY. Not so.

The best manuscripts do NOT include Mark 16:9-20.

 

[studier]

This discussion reminds me of another passage that may go along with this in meaning, and that is Acts 22:16 where Ananias tells Saul to “Arise, and be baptized and wash away your sins, CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD. Isn’t this the same thing as making an “appeal” as in 1 Peter 3? We are calling on God to save us, forgive our sins, etc. we know it’s not just speaking His name Matthew 7:21. We are appealing to His word and his power, and authority. Colossians 2:12 says, “..buried with Him in baptism…through faith IN THE WORKING OF GOD. We have faith in God, His word, and His promises. Baptism is God’s work. We “submit” to it, but God does the work; we have faith in Him and His word. We have faith in the working of God.

We are discussing baptism, but baptism is for “believers.” Mark 16:16 and Acts 8:36-37. So with out faith, baptism is useless. Faith must come first and it is an absolute requirement as Jesus says in Mark 16:16. Lest someone say we believe in baptism ONLY. Not so.

You're touching on things that I do think tie to this word "appeal" in 1Pet3:21. And this is why I find it important to do some of this deeper work we're discussing.

Also, what you're attaching here compares to things I considered as I thought and studied through baptism when a few asked me to baptize them. I'm not one for empty or unexplained rituals and traditions so I did some studies. They ended in my speaking to and teaching a few hours from Scripture before I would baptize anyone. If I didn't know them well, I'd check their only "foundation" (1Cor3:11) and some other Gospel points and then take them through some Scripture to instruct on what genuine Faith is, what Salvation is, and some of the things to expect in their walk to the goals and destination God has for His Children.

One of the things I instructed on was the somewhat of an ambiguous phrase Peter speaks of in the appeal [of] good conscience.

In one respect, as I mentioned before, I think this can be tied to Faith, so are we dealing with a person with what seems to be genuine Faith from a good conscience? Are we dealing with a Christian?

In another sense the appeal [of] a good conscience could be an appeal to God for a good conscience which IMO can tie into the instruction mostly in Hebrews re: the perfection of conscience that only comes through the sacrificial work and Great High Priesthood of Jesus Christ. And this perfection of conscience IMO is spoken of in the sense of what Christ has done for us and is doing for us as we grow in Christ in Spirit. So, part of the instruction I gave pre-baptism was to show some of the process of growth from infancy to maturity and beyond so the person being baptized would know some of what they were being baptized into, IOW a lifelong process of abiding and growth in the Faith, a perfection of conscience and being perfected in Love.

So, this "appeal to God" was not a minor thing IMO and I did not handle it as a minor thing. By the time I baptized someone I would be asking them to make an appeal to God from a genuine Faith (see link) and for spiritual maturity and beyond (as Paul speaks of in Phil3) and affirming to we who were witnesses that this is what they wanted, were appealing/making formal request for and were committing to and that they knew they had siblings in Christ in Spirit who would help them along the way in any way we could.

Again, it was not my intent to hijack this thread into baptism discussion. This is not all I think we're taught re: baptism.

 

[BillyBob]

I would certainly agree that we have a need to be baptized in order to be saved. However, I also believe that the baptism that saves is that which is done by the Holy Spirit not just water baptism alone.

When the Spirit is poured out on us, we will be saved!

The thief on the cross experienced this on his last day of life here on earth. There was no need for water baptism, but a baptism by the HS which changed his heart and made him believe and trust in the savior.

 

[Beckworth]

It's the covenant of grace spoken of in Genesis 3, when God promises redemption through the seed of the woman...Jesus...He will save His people from their sins...Matthew 1:21.

Initially, Adam is the representative of the human race. God gave him a covenant with basically 1 requirement: don't eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He failed. As a result, all mankind became subject to death.

Time goes on until the fulness of time is come...Galatians 4:4...and Jesus is born of a woman. Unlike the first Adam, He has over 600 laws to keep in order to redeem those who were under the law. He does so and fulfills all righteousness while suffering and dying, shedding His blood for the remission of sins.

We did not come face to face with God, as Israel did, and enter into agreement with God. Jesus entered into covenant with God. The Father set the terms, chose Jesus to be His servant...servant songs in Isaiah, and Jesus fulfilled all that was required to redeem a people for Himself.

We enter into the covenant by grace through faith. Unlike what many would have us believe, we do nothing to fulfill the covenant. Nor is anything expected of us to enter in. Jesus did all that was necessary. We simply enter through belief. This is why Jesus answered in John 6 to the question...what shall we do that we might work the works of God...that you believe on Him whom He hath sent.

When we believe we do receive the benefits of the covenant, but we do so without ever entering into an agreement or covenant with God.

I still do not see any scripture that says Gid entered into a covenant with Jesus. You did a lot I

You're touching on things that I do think tie to this word "appeal" in 1Pet3:21. And this is why I find it important to do some of this deeper work we're discussing.

Also, what you're attaching here compares to things I considered as I thought and studied through baptism when a few asked me to baptize them. I'm not one for empty or unexplained rituals and traditions so I did some studies. They ended in my speaking to and teaching a few hours from Scripture before I would baptize anyone. If I didn't know them well, I'd check their only "foundation" (1Cor3:11) and some other Gospel points and then take them through some Scripture to instruct on what genuine Faith is, what Salvation is, and some of the things to expect in their walk to the goals and destination God has for His Children.

One of the things I instructed on was the somewhat of an ambiguous phrase Peter speaks of in the appeal [of] good conscience.

In one respect, as I mentioned before, I think this can be tied to Faith, so are we dealing with a person with what seems to be genuine Faith from a good conscience? Are we dealing with a Christian?

In another sense the appeal [of] a good conscience could be an appeal to God for a good conscience which IMO can tie into the instruction mostly in Hebrews re: the perfection of conscience that only comes through the sacrificial work and Great High Priesthood of Jesus Christ. And this perfection of conscience IMO is spoken of in the sense of what Christ has done for us and is doing for us as we grow in Christ in Spirit. So, part of the instruction I gave pre-baptism was to show some of the process of growth from infancy to maturity and beyond so the person being baptized would know some of what they were being baptized into, IOW a lifelong process of abiding and growth in the Faith, a perfection of conscience and being perfected in Love.

So, this "appeal to God" was not a minor thing IMO and I did not handle it as a minor thing. By the time I baptized someone I would be asking them to make an appeal to God from a genuine Faith (see link) and for spiritual maturity and beyond (as Paul speaks of in Phil3) and affirming to we who were witnesses that this is what they wanted, were appealing/making formal request for and were committing to and that they knew they had siblings in Christ in Spirit who would help them along the way in any way we could.

Again, it was not my intent to hijack this thread into baptism discussion. This is not all I think we're taught re: baptism.

I applaud your study of baptism. I have always contended on this site that the only way to know the “truth” on any Bible subject is to study ALL God has to say on that subject. And that Psalms 119:160 tells us to take the “SUM” of God’s word; “add” it all together and that will be the “truth” on that subject.

Here is something for you to think about: in Acts 8 when Phillip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch, how much did the eunuch probably understand about baptism and the gospel? While Phillip taught him about Jesus in verse 35 he probably did not understand all that you and I understand about baptism and how it works. All that was necessary was for him to know what Baptism was and the purpose of it. This must have been part of what Phillip taught him because as soon as they came to some water, the eunuch asked to be baptized. However, I doubt he had a thorough knowledge or understanding of the subject. My point is that we do not have to understand all the workings involved with baptism in order to fulfill God’s command. Really all we need to know is “is baptism necessary and why” in order to obey God. Then we “grow” our faith by study as you and I are doing. 1Peter 2:2 seems to suggest that when we are converted, we are like babies, in the faith. We have to have the elementary things of the gospel, the “milk”, before we can have the “meat” of the gospel. Hebrews 5:12 also talks about this. God allows us time to grow in our faith and our Knowledge and understanding about the scriptures increase with study. He doesn’t expect us to be mature Christian’s before we are converted.

Almost all of the other conversions, Lydia, the Samaritans, (Acts 8), the Philippian Jailer, (Acts 16) and the Jews on Pentecost (Acts 2), even Saul of Tarsus in Acts 9, does not seem they had very much time to get knowledge or understanding about what they were doing.

if you have not already done a study of the conversions to Christ in the New Testament, I think you would profit from doing so. How were people converted to Christ? What did they do? Did they all do the same thing—as in a “plan of salvation, or in each case was salvation different based on circumstances? I only mention this because each conversion included baptism. I believe we can learn a lot from these examples, not only about baptism but also about other acts of salvation. I am enjoying our discussion and I appreciate how you treat the scriptures—with sincere interest and respect.

 

[Cameron143]

I still do not see any scripture that says Gid entered into a covenant with Jesus. You did a lot I



I applaud your study of baptism. I have always contended on this site that the only way to know the “truth” on any Bible subject is to study ALL God has to say on that subject. And that Psalms 119:160 tells us to take the “SUM” of God’s word; “add” it all together and that will be the “truth” on that subject.

Here is something for you to think about: in Acts 8 when Phillip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch, how much did the eunuch probably understand about baptism and the gospel? While Phillip taught him about Jesus in verse 35 he probably did not understand all that you and I understand about baptism and how it works. All that was necessary was for him to know what Baptism was and the purpose of it. This must have been part of what Phillip taught him because as soon as they came to some water, the eunuch asked to be baptized. However, I doubt he had a thorough knowledge or understanding of the subject. My point is that we do not have to understand all the workings involved with baptism in order to fulfill God’s command. Really all we need to know is “is baptism necessary and why” in order to obey God. Then we “grow” our faith by study as you and I are doing. 1Peter 2:2 seems to suggest that when we are converted, we are like babies, in the faith. We have to have the elementary things of the gospel, the “milk”, before we can have the “meat” of the gospel. Hebrews 5:12 also talks about this. God allows us time to grow in our faith and our Knowledge and understanding about the scriptures increase with study. He doesn’t expect us to be mature Christian’s before we are converted.

Almost all of the other conversions, Lydia, the Samaritans, (Acts 8), the Philippian Jailer, (Acts 16) and the Jews on Pentecost (Acts 2), even Saul of Tarsus in Acts 9, does not seem they had very much time to get knowledge or understanding about what they were doing.

if you have not already done a study of the conversions to Christ in the New Testament, I think you would profit from doing so. How were people converted to Christ? What did they do? Did they all do the same thing—as in a “plan of salvation, or in each case was salvation different based on circumstances? I only mention this because each conversion included baptism. I believe we can learn a lot from these examples, not only about baptism but also about other acts of salvation. I am enjoying our discussion and I appreciate how you treat the scriptures—with sincere interest and respect.

Do you believe God entered into a covenant with Adam?

 

[studier]

I have always contended on this site that the only way to know the “truth” on any Bible subject is to study ALL God has to say on that subject.

I've noticed your process. It comes across clearly. It's the same process I've used for decades. @GWH calls it "harmonizing". I've referred to it similarly for, again, decades. It's a lot of work at times due to the number of times a word is used or a topic is discussed but what's more important than understanding Him and living accordingly? Along the way I went to seminary for 3 years mainly to learn the languages and ended up mainly in Greek and how to use all the tools which I've been working with for about 2 of those decades now.

There are a few on this forum who work at letting the Text say what it/He says apart from various systematic traditions. Such can be refreshing to read.

I've looked at conversions as you speak of. IMO God is not limited as some seem to think. He knows each of us and how to handle all who choose to accept and not reject that He exists as He has made clear to all (Heb11:6; Rom1).

 

[Beckworth]

I would certainly agree that we have a need to be baptized in order to be saved. However, I also believe that the baptism that saves is that which is done by the Holy Spirit not just water baptism alone.

When the Spirit is poured out on us, we will be saved!

The thief on the cross experienced this on his last day of life here on earth. There was no need for water baptism, but a baptism by the HS which changed his heart and made him believe and trust in the savior.

There is not one thing in the story of the thief on the cross that even “hints” of Holy Spirit baptism. Have you read what Holy Spirit baptism was like in the New Testament? It only happened twice in the New Testament. Once in Acts 2 and once in Acts 10. It was an “outpouring”. The people receiving it were Not seeking it, were not praying for it, were not expecting it. It was not invisible. It was always manifested in some way—speaking in tongues. Others knew it and saw it. Both times, it was used as a “sign”. Does this sound like something that happened to the thief on the cross?? NO. This is pure fabrication and imagination. There is nothing in the word of God that even suggests this. Many people in the New Testament received the “gift” of the Spirit but it was by the laying on of the apostles hands; as in Acts 8. Those people were saved in verse 12, but did not receive the Holy Spirit until verses 15-17, and only then by Peter and John laying their hands on them. That was NOT Holy Spirit baptism. Holy Spirit baptism in the New Testament was a Miraculous “outpouring—not something invisible in the heart. Holy Spirit baptism never saved anyone. That was not its purpose. It was always used as a sign. In Acts 2, it was to convince the Jews that the apostles were from God. In Acts 10, it was to convince the Jews that salvation was for the gentiles, also. Acts 11:18. Not only was Holy Spirit Baptism not for salvation, receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the apostles hands was NOT for salvation either. 1 Cor. 14 defines some of the gifts of the Spirit and how they were used. None were used to save people.

Getting back to the thief, he did not need baptism of any kind. The baptism of Christ which was for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) AND in the name of Jesus was preached FIRST in Jerusalem ( Luke 24:47) in Acts 2– 50 days AFTER the thief’s death. He was not commanded to be baptised by Christ. And the Jewish law did not demand baptism at all. So why would the thief need to be baptized?? He didn’t.

 

[Beckworth]

Do you believe God entered into a covenant with Adam?

I don’t see any mention of God entering into a covenant with Adam” in Genesis 3; the word “covenant” is not even in Genesis 3 or mentioned in Genesis 3. That is purely your speculation. You do not have any scripture from the word of God that says that God entered into a covenant with Adam any more than you have any scripture that God entered into a covenant with Jesus. I am happy to discuss what God SAYS in His word, but it must be in The Bible and not from man.

 

[Cameron143]

I don’t see any mention of God entering into a covenant with Adam” in Genesis 3; the word “covenant” is not even in Genesis 3 or mentioned in Genesis 3. That is purely your speculation. You do not have any scripture from the word of God that says that God entered into a covenant with Adam any more than you have any scripture that God entered into a covenant with Jesus. I am happy to discuss what God SAYS in His word, but it must be in The Bible and not from man.

Not in Genesis 3; that's the covenant of grace. Do you see any place in Genesis 1 and 2 where God enters into an agreement with Adam?

 

[Magenta]

I don’t see any mention of God entering into a covenant with Adam” in Genesis 3; the word “covenant” is not even in Genesis 3 or mentioned in Genesis 3. That is purely your speculation. You do not have any scripture from the word of God that says that God entered into a covenant with Adam any more than you have any scripture that God entered into a covenant with Jesus. I am happy to discuss what God SAYS in His word, but it must be in The Bible and not from man.

Hosea 6 verse 7 But they, like Adam, have transgressed the covenant; there they were unfaithful to Me.

 

[Cameron143]

Hosea 6 verse 7 But they, like Adam, have transgressed the covenant; there they were unfaithful to Me.

Nice.

 

[Genez]

I would certainly agree that we have a need to be baptized in order to be saved. However, I also believe that the baptism that saves is that which is done by the Holy Spirit not just water baptism alone.

If we are saved? We have been baptized...

​

For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink." 1 Corinthians 12:13​

This is the church age. Not the age of Israel... Israel had the water baptisms required.

Jesus (after his resurrection) revealed that a new baptism is to replace the old water baptism.

For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:5​

No one likes to find out that they were doing something stupid and wrong. Done faithfully and felt righteous for doing it.
And, there will remain too many could care less to see any need for change, because they seek the approval of religiouis men.

There is not to be TWO -both water and Spirit - baptism for today.
For there is only one baptism for the church.

Ephesians 4:5​

One Lord, One faith, One baptism."​

God uses such times of revealing insight to kick those who have been thriving on being religious right in their pants.

Just like the Lord needed to kick Peter in the pants several times to break him away from being religious.
Peter's insistence for living under the Law got him humiliated until he finally accepted the grace to replace Law.

Grace and peace .........

 

[Musicmaster]

I would certainly agree that we have a need to be baptized in order to be saved. However, I also believe that the baptism that saves is that which is done by the Holy Spirit not just water baptism alone.

When the Spirit is poured out on us, we will be saved!

The thief on the cross experienced this on his last day of life here on earth. There was no need for water baptism, but a baptism by the HS which changed his heart and made him believe and trust in the savior.

Actually, no. Water baptism is a work, and therefore cannot be coupled together with the efficacious Blood of Christ Jesus. It is HIs Blood alone that waves us, by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves (such as water baptism), it is a gift of Gad that any man should boast.

Water baptism is a thing people boast about, and is therefore not at all a part of salvation under the Gospel of Grace.

MM

 

[Magenta]

Nice.

Thank you! And, you are welcome .

 

[Magenta]

It is His Blood alone that waves us,

I thought it was water that waves us...

 

[Beckworth]

Mark 16:16 does not contradict any other scripture in the New Testament. In fact, Mark 16:16 SUPPORTS every other scripture on belief and baptism in the New Testament. Even if this scripture was not in the New Testanent, I could still prove by scripture that faith and baptism are both necessary for salvation. So trying to disprove that “baptism is essential for salvation” by casting doubt on the authenticity of Mark 16:16 does not help your cause. You still have to deal with Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, and 1 Peter 3:21.

Do you want to see just how TRUE Mark 16:16 really is?? Well, consider these scriptures:

Acts 2- what did the Jews there do to be saved? After Peter preached a powerful sermon about how Jesus was the Messiah, they asked what they should do? They obviously BELIEVED what Peter said or they would not have asked “what shall we do?” Peter told them to “repent and be baptized.” He did not need to tell them to believe because they already showed EVIDENCE that they believed. They just needed to repent and be baptized. So what did 3000 Jews do to be saved?? They BELIEVED, (repented) and were BAPTIZED. What did Jesus say in Mark 16:16? Believe and be baptized to be saved. Just what Acts 2: says.

Saul BELIEVED. When he saw and talked to Jesus on the road to Damascus. Then he was BAPTUZED” to “wash away his sins”; which is equivalent to what Peter said when he said Baptism was for the remission of sins.

The Samaritans in Acts 8 BELIEVED AND WERE BAPTIZED in verse 12.
Simon the sorcerer BELIEVED AND WAS BAPTIZED in verse 13.
The Ethiopian eunuch BELIEVED AND WAS BAPTIZED VERSES 36-38

Lydia BELIEVED AND WAS BAPTIZED Acts 16:14-15
The Jailer BELIEVED AND WAS BAPTIZED VERSES 32-33.

Cornelius and his house BELIEVED AND WERE BAPTIZED Acts 10,

The Corinthians BELIEVED AND WERE BAPTIZED. Acts 18:8

SO, you see, I can prove that BELIEF AND BAPTISM SAVES even without Mark 16:16. But isn’t it interesting that Jesus said exactly what the rest of the scriptures prove saves people. If it saved people in the word of God, it will save people today.

Instead of trying to discredit Jesus and His teaching, why not show me some scriptures that say “you are saved by FAITH ONLY”? Not the ones that say we are saved by faith—because we all know that— but the ones that actually HAVE THE WORD ALONE OR ONLY in them. You all quote them and use them to try to prove faith only, but none—not even one— has the word “only” or “alone” in them. I can quote scriptures that say we must “repent” but that does not mean all we have to do is repent. (Acts 17:30) Or “repent only.” You dont teach repentance only. Romans 10:10 says “confession” saves but you don’t teach “confession ONLY.” So why do you take the scriptures that say we are saved by faith, and say we are saved by “faith only”? It’s not only inconsistent but it’s so wrong. It’s dishonest.

So you just go ahead and ignore Mark 16:16. Ignore Jesus. I can still prove by God’s word that BELIEF and BAPTUSM SAVE. it doesn’t change anything; you are going to have to ignore the rest of the New Testament, too.

 

[Genez]

Mark 16:16 does not contradict any other scripture in the New Testament.

Mark 16:16

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Note!

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved."

And, note!

" but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

No mention of baptism concerning the condemned.

It does not say!

" but whoever believes and not batized will be condemned."

You better find out what kind of baptism we all receive when we become saved!

In Christ......

 

[studier]

Mark 16:16

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Note!

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved."

And, note!

" but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

No mention of baptism concerning the condemned.

It does not say!

" but whoever believes and not batized will be condemned."

You better find out what kind of baptism we all receive when we become saved!

In Christ......

Weighing in only on Mark16:16, why would someone be baptized if they don't believe? IOW, it seems obvious that baptism doesn't need to be stated in the second clause - no belief so no baptism - but the first clause remains.