Repeating your good statement. A second witness to the continuous flawed reasoning.
Loss of salvation???
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Repeating your good statement. A second witness to the continuous flawed reasoning.
Not hard at all. You posted some Scriptures on endurance - please explain your methodology. Was it just an English search? Selective to fit mid-Acts or hyper-dispensational views? Can you claim you’ve listed all NT passages on endurance according to the relevant Greek words?
If you believe it's so simplistically terrible, then disprove it.
Matthew 24:15-17
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Now, Jesus was clearly speaking of the tribulation period to Israel, not Gentiles.
If what you dislike about my statement is in relation to my categorizing endurance as being works of self effort, nd you choose to couple that with salvation, then, yes, it is a works-based system of salvation to which you subscribe.
So, disprove it all if you can.
MM
That tribulation period for the Jews was clearly described by Luke.
Matthews account is compressed and confusing but Luke's account is clear and concise.
Luke 21:20-24
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then
those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city must leave, and
those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of punishment, so that
all things which have been written will be fulfilled. Woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those
who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land, and wrath to this people;
and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will
be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Too many times I have seen people quoting from Matthew 24 and completely ignoring Luke 21.
More cherry picking scripture. Jesus shed His blood for the forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 9:11-14
"But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come, He went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made by hands and is not a part of this creation. He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption.
For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that their bodies are clean, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, purify our consciences from works of death, so that we may serve the living God!"
And what does spilt blood indicate? Death. His blood has no efficacy for us apart from his death
I don't want to be picky, but there is a reason why God required blood to be shed. Jesus did not get stoned to death as was possible under the Law. No, His blood had to be shed. That's because the life is in the blood. Animal sacrifices were not allowed to be strangled for that reason.
I shared multiple verses with you and they were all saved through repentance/faith.
False. Getting rid of our sounds is signified, but not procured in water baptism. A symbol is not the reality but is a picture of the reality.
A works based false gospel that cannot save is from Satan.
Then, repent and believe the gospel/place your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation in order to get rid of your sins. (Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21; 26:18)
God hears those who call on the name of the Lord. (Romans 10:13)
Not sure if you will ever understand, Romans Paul is talking to the saved not the unsaved!!!
Romans 10:13 Yep, when do you call upon the name of the Lord? In baptism.
HE DOES NOT HEAR SINNERS!!!
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
JESUS said, not me.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Can't ENTER without being born of water and of spirit PERIOD.
To simple verses that you will not accept, so I guess the only question do I believe HIM or you.
By your own admission you have not been baptized in JESUS name for remission of sis and JESUS has not filled you with the Holy Ghost, so you have neither.
Best of luck, when you stand in front of JESUS he will be judging you with HIS rule book not your harmonizing or logic.
I promise I will keep praying for JESUS to open eyes, and anyone who may be following your lead.
Eternity is a long time, I keep planing the same seeds I don't think I'm wasting my time but sure feels like it.
Is a person who had salvation, fully followed Jesus / Christianity - them leave and follows another religion say Hinduism (worship many Gods) still saved or have they lost salvation?
Not really ignoring Luke since what I was specifically addressing, at least some elements, are in Matthew 24, but you're right. Luke was indeed a more precise exposition for details.
Thanks.
MM
Conversationally speaking, saved...IF they truly believed Pauls gospel, which was and is God's inspired and revealed message to us today.
2 Timothy 2:13 — If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
It's granted that I agree with the detractors out there who say that such a man can and does lose his salvation. For the sake of clarity about that agreement, its absolutely conditional. The loss of salvation cou.d be true ONLY if one of them kicked Christ off His Throne so that they could usurp it and judge other men as they seem to think they are positioned right now.
God inspired this:
2 Corinthians 1:22 — Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Ephesians 1:13 — In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30 — And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
The nay-sahers, however, don't like it that our salvation's permanence is based upon the faithfulness and the sealing of Christ Jesus and His Spirit rather than upon their own personal whim. They invent governing hypotheticals, which have no power of governance but they believe it all the same, and relegate some to Hell. Isn't it wonderful that those fallen souls aren't on the Throne of Christ who Himself inspired it to be written that our initial faith placed us fully within the sealing of Holy Spirit and the faithfulness of Christ in spite of ALL out unfaithfulness through daily sins.
If our salvation rooted in grace hinged upon our performance, our resume, therefore it no lo ger being grace, then we're all doomed given that works-based salvation is nor on the table for availability, given what Paul was inspired to write when stating that if salvation were not of grace, then it is of works, which cannot save anyone today. Do you want to stand in their shoes. I won't, not for a second. No thanks.
It's only the hard way that folks learn that under grace, their works lend not one inkling to their salvation nor its retention. Under grace, we still must strive to store up treasure in Heavenly places. Under grace we are under the power of being new creations and under the power of sanctification.
Amen.
MM
So, according to your logic, those who are already saved call upon the name of the Lord in order to be saved.
Now all of the Pauline epistles are addressed to the saved/brethren. The book of Romans in chapter 1:7 - To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world... 13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles.But that does not mean everyone being discussed in those epistles are saved. Verse 30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written: “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
As I previously explained to you multiple times but you just don't listen, in Acts 22:16, the cleansing happens as he calls on Christ, not by the water itself. The water is symbolic; the appeal to Christ’s name is the saving act. Romans 10:13 - For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
The remission of sins has three applications: 1. Literally, by the blood of Christ - Matthew 26:28 2. Experientially, by faith in Christ - Acts 26:18 3. Figuratively, by water baptism - Acts 22:16
Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?
So, according to your logic, lost sinners who call upon the name of the Lord to be saved are out of luck because God will not hear them, so prior to conversion, everyone will remain lost sinners. John 9:31 is significant to the healing of the blind man by Jesus, where the blind man after being healed asserts that Jesus must be from God because He healed him, in opposition to the Pharisees understanding of who Jesus really is and His mission.
I accept those verses. I just don't accept your EISEGESIS. In John 3:5, Jesus said born of water and the Spirit and NOT born of baptism and the Spirit. Also, consider what Jesus said in (John 4:10,14; 7:37) and see the connection between living water, the Holy Spirit and eternal life.
I have been baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit as Jesus commanded (Matthew 28:19) which is being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ/by His authority. (Matthew 28:18)
You need to worry about yourself if you plan on standing in front of Jesus with a false gospel. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)
My eyes were opened several years ago when I came to repent and believe the gospel/place my faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Acts 3:19; 10:43; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21). Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.
Yes, eternity is a long time for deceivers who pervert the gospel. I just hope and pray that seeds I have planted will one day be watered and lead you to the truth.
That's quite the ad hom diversion from explaining your methodology re: endurance. I'm sure you know that I and very likely others can see what you did and what you left out - maybe from lack of knowledge - maybe from personal agenda.
There it is openly stated. The gnostic belief that the power of the spiritual nature is what saves.
"[The Valentinian gnostics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the physical actions in which they may be involved."
Against Heresies, book 1, chapter 6, paragraph 2
Word salad chef's creations are made with a specially seasoned dressing that is infused with passive-aggressive ad hominem
So, according to your logic, those who are already saved call upon the name of the Lord in order to be saved.
But that does not mean everyone being discussed in those epistles are saved. Verse 30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written: “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
As I previously explained to you multiple times but you just don't listen, in Acts 22:16, the cleansing happens as he calls on Christ, not by the water itself. The water is symbolic; the appeal to Christ’s name is the saving act. Romans 10:13 - For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
The remission of sins has three applications: 1. Literally, by the blood of Christ - Matthew 26:28 2. Experientially, by faith in Christ - Acts 26:18 3. Figuratively, by water baptism - Acts 22:16
Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?
So, according to your logic, lost sinners who call upon the name of the Lord to be saved are out of luck because God will not hear them, so prior to conversion, everyone will remain lost sinners. John 9:31 is significant to the healing of the blind man by Jesus, where the blind man after being healed asserts that Jesus must be from God because He healed him, in opposition to the Pharisees understanding of who Jesus really is and His mission.
I accept those verses. I just don't accept your EISEGESIS. In John 3:5, Jesus said born of water and the Spirit and NOT born of baptism and the Spirit. Also, consider what Jesus said in (John 4:10,14; 7:37) and see the connection between living water, the Holy Spirit and eternal life.
I have been baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit as Jesus commanded (Matthew 28:19) which is being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ/by His authority. (Matthew 28:18)
You need to worry about yourself if you plan on standing in front of Jesus with a false gospel. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)
My eyes were opened several years ago when I came to repent and believe the gospel/place my faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Acts 3:19; 10:43; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21). Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.
Yes, eternity is a long time for deceivers who pervert the gospel. I just hope and pray that seeds I have planted will one day be watered and lead you to the truth.
I don't use logic, I use HIS WORD.
No reason to debate logic against HIS word, it's not going anywhere.
You follow your logic I will follow HIS word, two different roads.
Best of luck.
You're being too kind.
I'd delete the "passive" component here and just say that was aggressive and dismissive and meant to try to discredit. Classic ad hominem fallacy and diversion in a continuing chain of flawed reasoning.