Loss of salvation???
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Very true. Paul was indeed a mere man, even when he said this:
2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Because of the grammatical structure of that statement, some will call it into question in many different ways since it wasn't written in the guttural vernaculars of modern slang and cultural lunacy whereby words can then mean anything the hearer wants to interpret them to mean. Paul spoke this with precision, leaving only the non-thinkers to cast it aside as meaning something other than what it is saying.
So, yes, Paul did not come right out and write the Greek in a manner that would be translated into the cliche' of "Once saved always saved..." No. He was a highly educated man, speaking with a level of precision that his audience could not easily misconstrue...except in these modern times of utter subjectivism. God is no "Indian giver," nor a liar, nor One who plays games with words:
Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
So, good message, Blade. When God gives the gift of salvation, He's not One to take it all back because doing so would be a matter of His denying Himself. Some speak much about losing salvation, and yet they have no legitimate explanation as to where that threshold is, no graph to illustrate what they or someone else they are following has actually defined with definitive language that originated from scripture. They have no acid test for loss of salvation apart from what they see with their eyes or hear with their ears or both. They see themselves as adept at shoving Christ aside off His own Throne so that they can sit in it as the judge of others.
The thought doth make me tremble...
MM
Three key things about the topic of this thread:
For the Lord to allow loss of salvation, that would be a matter of self-induced failure failure on HIs own part to remain faithful, and such would be a denial of Himself. So you see, the belief for loss of salvation is itself dangerous and of the devil who is the father of lies. Charismaticism, some Baptist groupings and Roman Catholicism in general seem to be the prime crowds from which this false doctrine resides and originates. That doesn't mean that all charismatics, Baptists and Roman Catholics are of this stripe, but Roman Catholics tend to remain faithful attendees out of fear of what they call the moral, or mortal, sin they are taught that allegedly nullifies their salvation (depending on what their parish priest has been teaching them here in the West).
Here's an oldie, but a goodie:
This is THE most popular garbage philosophy/accusation spewed with acid, always at the exclusion of all scripture that negates this nonsense.
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
This should cause even greater praise among those who have been living in fear of salvation loss.
MM
- Salvation is a gift, not a reward lest any man should boast.
- True salvation leads to lasting transformation, not stasis.
- God's grace is both sufficient and sanctifying, not weak and lacking in results.
- Falsehood: Some believe that if a Christian sins too much or commits certain sins, they automatically lose salvation.
- Biblical Response: While sin is serious, salvation is not earned by works or kept by moral perfection (Ephesians 2:8–9). God's grace covers sin, and repentance restores fellowship (1 John 1:9), not salvation itself.
- Falsehood: One major sin (e.g., falling into temptation or doubt) causes eternal separation from God.
- Biblical Response: God's grace is sufficient and enduring. King David, Peter, and others failed severely but were not ever told of rejection for salvation (Psalm 51, John 21:15–19).
- Falsehood: People think they must maintain salvation through constant good works or religious performance.
- Biblical Response: Salvation is by grace through faith, not by works (Titus 3:5, Galatians 3:3). Obedience is fruit of salvation, not a requirement to retain it.
- Falsehood: All backsliders are considered unsaved.
- Biblical Response: While backsliding is spiritually dangerous and may lead to judgment or discipline (Hebrews 12:6), it does not necessarily indicate loss of salvation. God is faithful to complete the work He started (Philippians 1:6).
For the Lord to allow loss of salvation, that would be a matter of self-induced failure failure on HIs own part to remain faithful, and such would be a denial of Himself. So you see, the belief for loss of salvation is itself dangerous and of the devil who is the father of lies. Charismaticism, some Baptist groupings and Roman Catholicism in general seem to be the prime crowds from which this false doctrine resides and originates. That doesn't mean that all charismatics, Baptists and Roman Catholics are of this stripe, but Roman Catholics tend to remain faithful attendees out of fear of what they call the moral, or mortal, sin they are taught that allegedly nullifies their salvation (depending on what their parish priest has been teaching them here in the West).
Here's an oldie, but a goodie:
- Falsehood: Eternal security means you can sin freely with no consequences.
- Biblical Response: Genuine faith produces fruit and a transformed life (James 2:14–26). Persistent, unrepentant sin may indicate someone was never truly saved (1 John 2:19), or that they will smell like they were bought at a fire sale.
This is THE most popular garbage philosophy/accusation spewed with acid, always at the exclusion of all scripture that negates this nonsense.
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
This should cause even greater praise among those who have been living in fear of salvation loss.
MM
Would you please make that into a somewhat shorter statement so we can have something specific to respond to?
We can not lose our salvation ... but we sure can lose our perspective.
Thank you...
I narrowed it all down to bullet points. Which ones are not understandable? Can you quote the item(s) that is needing narrowed down? How do we get it any more narrow, or synopsized, than bullet points?
MM
You are functioning on a different level from those who might wish to hold a discussion, rather than taking dictation.
Perhaps if you would be less cryptic, what you're asking might be more clear. Which of those bullet points do you disagree with, and why?
MM
Imagine if someone walked up to you and told you that Jesus told him to do something, and he believed the Lord.
Could that person boast to you that he believed Him?
Salvation is believing God by simply taking Him on His Word.
No boasting involved.
No works needed.
Just believe what you were told by the one who never lies.
Our salvation began with what constituted having a regular relationship with God through the Lord = believing.
Unbelievers (and those weak of trust) can not believe God and take him on his Word.
They must convince themselves by doing something to reassure for themselves they have 'earned' salvation. Works.
Works at best? = dumb believers.
Not wise.
Could that person boast to you that he believed Him?
Salvation is believing God by simply taking Him on His Word.
No boasting involved.
No works needed.
Just believe what you were told by the one who never lies.
Our salvation began with what constituted having a regular relationship with God through the Lord = believing.
Unbelievers (and those weak of trust) can not believe God and take him on his Word.
They must convince themselves by doing something to reassure for themselves they have 'earned' salvation. Works.
Works at best? = dumb believers.
Not wise.
As an Israeli, I'm glad this doesn't apply to me because I'm not guilty of any blood on my hands.
MM
I'm so glad our salvation isn't based on our performance because we ALL still sin in this life.
MM
His own blood was shed, which was not mere physical blood.
Blood was synonymous with the term "death" in those days.
Question:
When did Jesus declare? "It is Finished!"
After he bled to death physically?
He was not dead physically when he declared that the atonement was completed.
There is much more to it than the symbolism (shadows) of the Law.
At about three o'clock Jesus screamed with a loud voice and kept on saying,
"Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, My God, why have You
rejected/forsaken Me?" Matthew 27:46
The insight is to be found when he kept screaming out ..."Mt God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Jesus was in unspeakable agony.
Because of our sins, He was being forsaken by God the Father, and Holy Spirit. (My God, My God)
Yet? His own Deity remained inside of Him. But remained grieved and quenched from within.
What was taking place was the sins of the world being poured upon his body.
As a lamb was sacrificed physically in the Temple?
So was He on the Cross.
Being cut off spiritually was like having his throat slit and bled on the alter.
As our sins continued to be poured, his humanity kept bleeding out his spiritual connection with the Godhead.
He was... "forsaken by God!"
To the perfect, loving Son?
His agony was unspeakable!
.................
Amen Brother.
He SPIRITUALLY died for us. He was our substitute.
ALL sin was paid for When He said," It is finished!"
Generally speaking, if the retention of our salvation were based upon our performance, we would all be living in the uncertainties of our ultimate end in relation to being saved...as do Roman Catholics and the many cults out there that teach works-based salvation and works-based retention of their salvation.
MM
MM
John 6:37
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
His mission on earth was finished, but HE was not finished!!
HE ROSE three days later that is what separate's him from any other man who died.
His total mission wasn't done until he ascended the first time to put his blood on the mercy seat and show his disciples that he was alive as he promised and the ascended the second time.
He gave HIS disciples specific instructions to wait for a comforter to come before they went out.
Correction: That was spoken to Israel at that time, addressing a future time under the Kingdom Gospel and in the tribulation to come, not Gentiles under the Gospel of Grace in this dispensation. Israel did not have the promise of being sealed by Holy Spirit for their salvation under the Kingdom Gospel. As you can see in that verse, precision of language that you missed entirely is vastly important. You totally missed it that Jesus spoke of their salvation as future when He said, "...SHALL be saved," on the basis of endurance, which is a work of self-effort.
In other words, they were not saved in the moment as we are, but would/will be saved in the future IF they endure under the Kingdom Gospel once this dispensation of grace has come to an end with the beginning of the tribulation to start soon after.
MM
Yea, they were not dead yet, so he is speaking of the future!!
Share scripture where we are are reborn the moment we believe or whatever it is YOU THINK.