Legalism?

[jsr1221]

So I had this discussion with a friend last night, and he basically believes that you say a prayer, then sit on your hands and knees and do nothing until God answers said prayer. He also believes that fellowship and discipleship are "half-baked truths" and that if someone takes part in something like a men's study, the person isn't seeking God. I found this mind of shocking and disapppointing because we first met in a singles ministry for young adults. He was just talking talking about he wanted to go to Christmas Eve service but then turned around said those things.. So how would one minister to someone like this? Cause what he said really bothered me, and I couldn't fall back asleep after.

 

[Grace777x70]

It sounds like he is confused. I wonder what he means by "half-baked truths". If he believes that God has answered his prayer then he should just live his life confident that the Lord has taken care of whatever he prayed for. The Spirit of God inside him will direct him to do what is needed as he goes about his life.

He might have a wrong impression of discipleship too. In some churches it means - just do whatever we tell you. That can simply turn into "spiritual abuse".

I would ask him some questions to ferret out exactly what he means by the "half-baked truths"..

 

[p_rehbein]

Seems to me that this guy is just messed up concerning the Gospel of Christ........and I can only surmise that you titled your thread "Legalism?" to draw attention to it right?



Every messed up ideology does not necessarily equate to legalism.........sometimes they are just messed up ideologies.

 

[jsr1221]

Seems to me that this guy is just messed up concerning the Gospel of Christ........and I can only surmise that you titled your thread "Legalism?" to draw attention to it right?



Every messed up ideology does not necessarily equate to legalism.........sometimes they are just messed up ideologies.

I didn't really know what else to call it. I immediately thought of legalism because it sounded like (to me) he was taking things too literally.

 

[Abing]

So I had this discussion with a friend last night, and he basically believes that you say a prayer, then sit on your hands and knees and do nothing until God answers said prayer. He also believes that fellowship and discipleship are "half-baked truths" and that if someone takes part in something like a men's study, the person isn't seeking God. I found this mind of shocking and disapppointing because we first met in a singles ministry for young adults. He was just talking talking about he wanted to go to Christmas Eve service but then turned around said those things.. So how would one minister to someone like this? Cause what he said really bothered me, and I couldn't fall back asleep after.

It sounds to me, more like an issue of ignorance and pride.

 

[p_rehbein]

I didn't really know what else to call it. I immediately thought of legalism because it sounded like (to me) he was taking things too literally.

Not picking on you, just so you know..........

But, legal and literal are not always one in the same.

Maybe you should compile a list of Scriptures to give to him to study............you could start with the Scriptures concerning the "Gifts of the Spirit." As he seems to be locked into the Holy Spirit, he should know that one of the Gifts is Teacher.

 

[jsr1221]

It sounds to me, more like an issue of ignorance and pride.

Thanks sister. I immediately thought the same thing. Not quite sure my mind was trying to legalism, though.

 

[jsr1221]

Not picking on you, just so you know..........

But, legal and literal are not always one in the same.

Maybe you should compile a list of Scriptures to give to him to study............you could start with the Scriptures concerning the "Gifts of the Spirit." As he seems to be locked into the Holy Spirit, he should know that one of the Gifts is Teacher.

He three 1 Samuel 15 And said Raul got punished when he tried doing things on his own. This was immediately after I said I was wanting to join the new men's study that's starting up. I did ask him what he meant by that, and asked him what did Jesus mean when he said make disciples of all the nations if discipleship wasn't important. Hoping to hear back from him with answers. It's difficult because every other line of words is "I'm just chasing the Father's presence." Well... How does one do that exactly? Part of it is by plugging yourself in the church along with fellowship and discipleship. I don't think he realizes it's the intent behind doing it that's the difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He three 1 Samuel 15 And said Raul got punished when he tried doing things on his own. This was immediately after I said I was wanting to join the new men's study that's starting up. I did ask him what he meant by that, and asked him what did Jesus mean when he said make disciples of all the nations if discipleship wasn't important. Hoping to hear back from him with answers. It's difficult because every other line of words is "I'm just chasing the Father's presence." Well... How does one do that exactly? Part of it is by plugging yourself in the church along with fellowship and discipleship. I don't think he realizes it's the intent behind doing it that's the difference.

does the guy have a catholic background?

 

[jsr1221]

does the guy have a catholic background?

Baptsist, actually. Now goes to a non denominational church.. Or, when "God allows him to" that is. Kind of off topic but it's showing typos in my last post, even though I edited them. This phone drives me crazy with autocorrect. I don't know if it's showing up on anyone else's end.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Baptsist, actually. Now goes to a non denominational church.. Or, when "God allows him to" that is. Kind of off topic but it's showing typos in my last post, even though I edited them. This phone drives me crazy with autocorrect. I don't know if it's showing up on anyone else's end.

No your good, My ipad does the same if I am not carefull. I hate it also.

Baptist. Most baptist churches do not teach discipleship (I wish they did when I was growing up) so it is something they do not understand, They also did not like mens bible studies unless the pastor led it (again most of the ones I grew up in and there was many, not only in childhood, but while I traveled in the military)

The only way I can think is to get hi to question his beieve in those things (why he believes the way he does) because sadly, that is what it took to get me to break free from my beliefs, which were not good for me.

 

[jsr1221]

No your good, My ipad does the same if I am not carefull. I hate it also.

Baptist. Most baptist churches do not teach discipleship (I wish they did when I was growing up) so it is something they do not understand, They also did not like mens bible studies unless the pastor led it (again most of the ones I grew up in and there was many, not only in childhood, but while I traveled in the military)

The only way I can think is to get hi to question his beieve in those things (why he believes the way he does) because sadly, that is what it took to get me to break free from my beliefs, which were not good for me.

That makes more sense. The first church I went to after coming home from school was actually Baptist. And that actually don't have a men's minstry, which I always thought was kind of weird. I actually started going to this non denomination one because it felt like I couldn't connect with anyone my age at the Baptist one because most were married. I see the non denomination had a singles ministry, and that's what ultimately brought me there. Been more involved since. I still go to the Baptist one for Celebrate Recovery. Part of me just always felt something was missing there and I can see why and what it is now.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That makes more sense. The first church I went to after coming home from school was actually Baptist. And that actually don't have a men's minstry, which I always thought was kind of weird. I actually started going to this non denomination one because it felt like I couldn't connect with anyone my age at the Baptist one because most were married. I see the non denomination had a singles ministry, and that's what ultimately brought me there. Been more involved since. I still go to the Baptist one for Celebrate Recovery. Part of me just always felt something was missing there and I can see why and what it is now.

I wish I had seen it sooner, I wonder how my life would have been different, as I trusted God more..

I am now in a non denom church also..

to note. Not all baptist churches are this way, I have been to a few real nice ones, with all kinds of fellowship and even led some mens study groups in one..

Sadly, I was not there long wnough before I got transferred again.

 

[jsr1221]

I wish I had seen it sooner, I wonder how my life would have been different, as I trusted God more..

I am now in a non denom church also..

to note. Not all baptist churches are this way, I have been to a few real nice ones, with all kinds of fellowship and even led some mens study groups in one..

Sadly, I was not there long wnough before I got transferred again.

Yeah. It's funny how there are different denominations of baptist churches alone. The one down the street from me is entirely different than the one I went to. Tried going to it once after I had moved across town, and after one service I just felt uncomfortable. The other one actually has very nice people, and I enjoyed the sermons. It was just their ministry was focused a lot on married couple's and families. And when you're in your mid 20s kind of stuck in that "What's next" phase, that's something that you just can't really relate to.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah. It's funny how there are different denominations of baptist churches alone. The one down the street from me is entirely different than the one I went to. Tried going to it once after I had moved across town, and after one service I just felt uncomfortable. The other one actually has very nice people, and I enjoyed the sermons. It was just their ministry was focused a lot on married couple's and families. And when you're in your mid 20s kind of stuck in that "What's next" phase, that's something that you just can't really relate to.

Thats where I think the traditional church is failing.

What worked 50 years ago is not working today. One does not have to change doctrine to change the way they do things.. When we get stuck in traditions and what people falsly call "fundamentalism" we lose the younger generation.

It is sad when I go to a traditional church and see very few if any young couples. Yet churches like mine it mostly younger couples. or students and a lot less people of our generation.

Thats why I think alot od non denominational churches are floursihing, They are not non doctrinal churches, My church teaches the same as a baptist church would. They just focus more on doctrines like discipleship and stuff. And they are not bound by old traditions which do not relat with the younger generation.

 

[jsr1221]

So apparently he says he doesn't trust anyone because people are liars and sinners, and he asks "Why would I want to help out or serve someone that is like that?" So it is a prideful thing.. I just reminded him that he's a sinner also, and the only way he will never sin is when he leaves this Earth. Also pointed out that Jesus spent time with sinners, and He chose 12 sinners to follow Him as His disciples. Also pointed out that in Heaven, God doesn't have borders to guide us from any harm. He saves is from all over the world, so when we get to Heaven there is going to be a lot of people, and we will all be brothers and sisters in Christ in Heaven next to God the Father. He didn't respond after that. I don't know if he plans on doing so.. Maybe if "God allows him." I just don't really understand how someone can act that way. Than again, hello Christian Chat. Those same kind of people are also on here. So I don't know.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So apparently he says he doesn't trust anyone because people are liars and sinners, and he asks "Why would I want to help out or serve someone that is like that?" So it is a prideful thing.. I just reminded him that he's a sinner also, and the only way he will never sin is when he leaves this Earth. Also pointed out that Jesus spent time with sinners, and He chose 12 sinners to follow Him as His disciples. Also pointed out that in Heaven, God doesn't have borders to guide us from any harm. He saves is from all over the world, so when we get to Heaven there is going to be a lot of people, and we will all be brothers and sisters in Christ in Heaven next to God the Father. He didn't respond after that. I don't know if he plans on doing so.. Maybe if "God allows him." I just don't really understand how someone can act that way. Than again, hello Christian Chat. Those same kind of people are also on here. So I don't know.

I see his Baptist coming out.. He is imprisoned with legalistic self righteous thinking. We do not stain ourselves with serving people who deserve to be suffering because of sin..

It took God years to help me, I would pride myself on helping others unconditionally in my church who needed help. But when I needed help, I would never ask, for fear of being a taker. And then someone to get in my face and tell me the truth, I am preventing God from using others to serve me..

If he is not ready to hear it, You will not be able to say anything, Prayer is the best, and just love him as a friend, And show by your actions.

 

[blondieindahouse]

Thats where I think the traditional church is failing.

What worked 50 years ago is not working today. One does not have to change doctrine to change the way they do things.. When we get stuck in traditions and what people falsly call "fundamentalism" we lose the younger generation.

It is sad when I go to a traditional church and see very few if any young couples. Yet churches like mine it mostly younger couples. or students and a lot less people of our generation.

Thats why I think alot od non denominational churches are floursihing, They are not non doctrinal churches, My church teaches the same as a baptist church would. They just focus more on doctrines like discipleship and stuff. And they are not bound by old traditions which do not relat with the younger generation.

IMHO I think non denom is a denomination. The non denom that I went to were more seeker friendly and emergent. They watered down the gospel. Im not saying all non denom are that way but that is my experience with many in this neck of the woods. I steer clear.

 

[blondieindahouse]

So apparently he says he doesn't trust anyone because people are liars and sinners, and he asks "Why would I want to help out or serve someone that is like that?" So it is a prideful thing.. I just reminded him that he's a sinner also, and the only way he will never sin is when he leaves this Earth. Also pointed out that Jesus spent time with sinners, and He chose 12 sinners to follow Him as His disciples. Also pointed out that in Heaven, God doesn't have borders to guide us from any harm. He saves is from all over the world, so when we get to Heaven there is going to be a lot of people, and we will all be brothers and sisters in Christ in Heaven next to God the Father. He didn't respond after that. I don't know if he plans on doing so.. Maybe if "God allows him." I just don't really understand how someone can act that way. Than again, hello Christian Chat. Those same kind of people are also on here. So I don't know.

Here enlies the beauty of Gods grace. YOU are in his path for a reason! What just occurred to me is with Gods leading, you can help this guy. Perhaps this situation is a growing process for each of you? Isnt God good?!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

IMHO I think non denom is a denomination. The non denom that I went to were more seeker friendly and emergent. They watered down the gospel. Im not saying all non denom are that way but that is my experience with many in this neck of the woods. I steer clear.

there are many non denoms, We even have a charismatic non denom here in my city,,

Non denom is just a term for a church which broke away from denominational structure,