Kristallnacht 2:0

[Sculpt]

How can Israel make peace with surrounding hostile actors that simply want them dead?

I watched an interesting clip earlier where Piers Morgan was discussing this with a pro-Palestinian man, and also the words of a pastor looking at the wider prophetic landscape…

I watched the video. Pastors have their interpretations of scripture and other religions' texts and what it means in the real world. I like Piers, but it's almost always hard to watch him because he brings in experts in fields and people with unique or interesting positions, and then he tells them what his opinion is for 80% of the "interview". It's like, Piers, limit yourself to 50% of the total time, considering you're supposed to be asking questions and listening to the answers.

Israel, and everybody else, cannot make peace with any individuals who are currently in the act of trying to kill them. But every conflict doesn't have to end with everyone being dead. Wars end and then a plan for peace and prosperity needs to be pursued. Ecclesiastes reads there's a time for war and a time for peace.

The polls go up and down (especially with hot events) and change depending on how the question is asked, and who's taking the poll... but over the years a majority of both Israelis and Palestinians have been in favor of a two-state solution.

Are there some people on both sides who want to wipe the other out or kick them out of the area (ethnic cleansing)? There definitely are some, but remember they are currently in a situation where a state is occupying another would-be-state. That big problem and desperation will color current opinions. When there's two free states, that number will drop. Renters don't take care of a house like owners do.

Even Arafat negotiated for a two-state solution. Occupation is not a solution; it causes perpetual conflict. People need a stable state, property and business ownership, post office, defense, fire department, Social Security, etc.

The jews who decided to create a state of Israel in the Palestine Mandate in 1948 knew it was not going to be a risk-free venture. No one can expect a risk-free anything in life. They are taking a risk no matter what. The best risk is in peace and co-prosperity.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Saudi Arabia is mostly desert, especially the area just south of Israel. That sounds extraordinarily cruel, don't you think? Is that a Christ-like attitude?

Yes, Saudi Arabia is mostly desert. But that does not mean that with enough cash and effort a portion of it cannot be transformed into livable space with enough water, food, homes, and businesses for many. After all there are already may livable areas on that peninsula.

As to forcible removal, don't forget that Israel defeated all those Muslim/Arab nations in the Six Day War. Therefore they had the right to make the necessary changes. And don't forget the forcible removal of Jews in Europe from their homes and their being banished to Auschwitz and other place to be exterminated. Why did the Jews need their own homeland? Because they were outcasts in Europe and targeted for destruction.

Palestine was under Muslim control since the 7th century, but for over 2,000 years before that Palestine was for Israel, and will belong to Israel in the future. God is not finished with Israel and the land which will be "Greater Israel".

As to "Christ-like" the Bible clearly tells us that Christ will DESTROY all of Israel's enemies at His Second Coming.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. (Rev 19:19-21)

 

[FRB72]

 

[FRB72]

Susan Sarandon is dumped by Hollywood agent UTA after sparking outrage by saying frightened Jews are getting a 'taste of how it feels to be Muslim in America'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Jews-getting-taste-feels-Muslim-America.html

 

[FRB72]

 

[FRB72]

…Because with the US destroyed the BRICS alliance will control security in the Middle East putting Iran and Russia in charge.

If their plans fail through the proxies, with global economic control within the reach of their fingertips, it no longer seems like a stretch to see how the setup for the events of Ezekiel 38 and 39 are on the horizon.

 

[ZNP]

If their plans fail through the proxies, with global economic control within the reach of their fingertips, it no longer seems like a stretch to see how the setup for the events of Ezekiel 38 and 39 are on the horizon.

The major players in Ezekiel 38 are Iran, Russia and Turkey. It already seems that we are fighting and will be at war with Iran and Russia. Psalm 83 is the proxy war, Ezekiel 38 is the war between the major players. I am hypothesizing that the destruction of Damascus so that it becomes a ruinous heap is the bridge that takes us from Proxy war to Full on war.

 

[FRB72]

Israel sees surge in immigration interest from US and France since Oct. 7

https://m.jpost.com/aliyah/article-772146

 

[FRB72]

 

[Sculpt]

As to "Christ-like" the Bible clearly tells us that Christ will DESTROY all of Israel's enemies at His Second Coming.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. (Rev 19:19-21)

That's a rather troubling response. Are you saying it's being Christ-like to destroy anyone you think is an "enemy of Israel"? Have you not read,

"Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord."

That's what you've been called to do. Not destroy others. Who've you been listening to?

Yes, Saudi Arabia is mostly desert. But that does not mean that with enough cash and effort a portion of it cannot be transformed into livable space with enough water, food, homes, and businesses for many. After all there are already may livable areas on that peninsula.

Throw your Palestinian brothers and sisters in Christ out into Saudi Arabia, who doesn't want them and where they cut off hands and heads? Who've you been listening to? Yes, there are Christian Palestinians. It's estimated there are 50,000 Christians in Palestine. They are wondering who've you been listening to.

As to forcible removal, don't forget that Israel defeated all those Muslim/Arab nations in the Six Day War. Therefore they had the right to make the necessary changes. And don't forget the forcible removal of Jews in Europe from their homes and their being banished to Auschwitz and other place to be exterminated. Why did the Jews need their own homeland? Because they were outcasts in Europe and targeted for destruction.

So, if your brother Bob punches me in the face then I have the right to go open-season on you, right? Because the Jews were targeted in Europe they have the right to commit any wrong to any non-Jews in Palestine? That's your philosophy now? Who've you been listening to?

Yes, Israel won a few wars in the Middle East. The United States defeated Japan in 1945. You're suggesting after the defeat of Japan, it would have been ok for Americans to go to Japan murder or expel all the men, women and children there and take their land? Who've you been listening to?

Palestine was under Muslim control since the 7th century, but for over 2,000 years before that Palestine was for Israel, and will belong to Israel in the future. God is not finished with Israel and the land which will be "Greater Israel".

"Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert." Isaiah 43:19

In the books of Eza and Nehemiah, when those men brought Jews back to the areas of Israel, these books had no command to murder or expel the people who were there. We know from scripture that all of the Canaanites were never cleared from the two differently sized areas described in Gen and Num 34 respectively (see Judg 2:20-21, 1 Kgs 9:20). Indeed, we know Judah and Israel were taken away from the land into captivity. God had his reasons for His commands of herem destruction from Exod and 1 Sam at the time, why it was stopped, the exiles, various returns and being ruled by various nations/empires. God has done new things for His own purposes. Jews have lived in peace with people who were in the area. The point was that they didn't take on the inhabitants' idolatry. And now it is to accept Messiah. There is no biblical obligation for Christians to accept, any of the various administrations of the state of Israel, inflicting genocides or occupations.

 

[Nehemiah6]

That's a rather troubling response

REVELATION 19: AT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

[ZNP]

REVELATION 19: AT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

That doesn't answer the question because this verse is about an angel of God. Do you, think it is christlike for you to destroy anyone that you think is an enemy of Israel?

 

[Nehemiah6]

That doesn't answer the question because this verse is about an angel of God. Do you, think it is christlike for you to destroy anyone that you think is an enemy of Israel?

That would be purely hypothetical, since I would never be involved in that scenario. So let's drop that.

What Christ said to Christians was for their personal relationships, not for warfare between terrorists and Israel. Since Israel was attacked unprovoked, their only response is to totally eliminate the terrorists who wish to ELIMINATE Israel and all Jews in Palestine. And at His Second Coming, Christ will indeed destroy all of Israel's enemies.

The whole world has ganged up on Israel, and the so-called "liberals" are all cheering the terrorists and condemning Israel for defending itself. Now the whole world's shipping has been sabotaged by the Houthi terrorists, and the response thus far has been pathetic. The Houthis went to war against Israel for no reason, and that led to the sabotage of shipping in the Red Sea.

 

[ZNP]

That would be purely hypothetical, since I would never be involved in that scenario. So let's drop that.

No, let's not. It is the underlying thought behind the crusades and the underlying thought behind Hitler's 1,000 year Reich, and the underlying thought behind dominion theology. Many people have this thought and it is not hypothetical.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

That doesn't answer the question because this verse is about an angel of God. Do you, think it is christlike for you to destroy anyone that you think is an enemy of Israel?

God will take care of it. No need to worry about it.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

That's a rather troubling response. Are you saying it's being Christ-like to destroy anyone you think is an "enemy of Israel"? Have you not read,

"Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord."

That's what you've been called to do. Not destroy others. Who've you been listening to?

Israel is at war with terrorists. They did not break the ceasefire. They did not go into homes and murder entire families and then send video to family and friends. They did not murder a mass of youth at a peace rally. They didn't rape women and then drag them through the streets. Israel has a right to live on their land in peace and they have a right to defend that land.

Throw your Palestinian brothers and sisters in Christ out into Saudi Arabia, who doesn't want them and where they cut off hands and heads? Who've you been listening to? Yes, there are Christian Palestinians. It's estimated there are 50,000 Christians in Palestine. They are wondering who've you been listening to.

If they are Christians they will read the Bible and also understand that Israel has a right to defend themselves. There is no reason there can't be peace in the ME if they agree Israel has a right to exist. Israel sits on 1% of land in the ME and they don't want them to have that. A Christian would understand that and live in peace with their Jewish neighbors.

So, if your brother Bob punches me in the face then I have the right to go open-season on you, right? Because the Jews were targeted in Europe they have the right to commit any wrong to any non-Jews in Palestine? That's your philosophy now? Who've you been listening to?

We're not talking about punching someone in the face. We are talking about horrendous crimes against humanity. They are vile terrorists and they need to be stamped out. Anyone, anyone who took part in it. This is war. People suffer during war, people starve during war, innocent people get killed during war. It happens around the world every single day and you don't see any threads arguing about it. I wonder why that is?!

Yes, Israel won a few wars in the Middle East. The United States defeated Japan in 1945. You're suggesting after the defeat of Japan, it would have been ok for Americans to go to Japan murder or expel all the men, women and children there and take their land? Who've you been listening to?

The land belongs to Israel. Everyone who has tried to divide the land has and will fail. God gave the land to the Jews as an everlasting promise, unconditionally. I don't believe there will be peace there till Christ returns.

 

[Nehemiah6]

No, let's not. It is the underlying thought behind the crusades and the underlying thought behind Hitler's 1,000 year Reich, and the underlying thought behind dominion theology. Many people have this thought and it is not hypothetical.

You applied that scenario to me PERSONALLY. And that is baloney. So all this talk about crusades and Hitler means nothing. I was simply presenting Israel's POV after October 7. Imagine you are a Jew in Israel and your next door neighbor wants to exterminate you. Are you going to present your neck and politely ask your enemy to behead you?

 

[ZNP]

You applied that scenario to me PERSONALLY. And that is baloney. So all this talk about crusades and Hitler means nothing. I was simply presenting Israel's POV after October 7. Imagine you are a Jew in Israel and your next door neighbor wants to exterminate you. Are you going to present your neck and politely ask your enemy to behead you?

No, I did not ask you the question, it was asked of you and you tried to skip it. That is the only question I wanted answered. I have not applied anything to you, but I have been concerned by many of your posts.

 

[Sculpt]

Israel is at war with terrorists. They did not break the ceasefire. They did not go into homes and murder entire families and then send video to family and friends. They did not murder a mass of youth at a peace rally. They didn't rape women and then drag them through the streets. Israel has a right to live on their land in peace and they have a right to defend that land.

If they are Christians they will read the Bible and also understand that Israel has a right to defend themselves. There is no reason there can't be peace in the ME if they agree Israel has a right to exist. Israel sits on 1% of land in the ME and they don't want them to have that. A Christian would understand that and live in peace with their Jewish neighbors.

We're not talking about punching someone in the face. We are talking about horrendous crimes against humanity. They are vile terrorists and they need to be stamped out. Anyone, anyone who took part in it. This is war. People suffer during war, people starve during war, innocent people get killed during war. It happens around the world every single day and you don't see any threads arguing about it. I wonder why that is?!

The land belongs to Israel. Everyone who has tried to divide the land has and will fail. God gave the land to the Jews as an everlasting promise, unconditionally. I don't believe there will be peace there till Christ returns.

Huh? I wasn't talking to you, and you jumped into the end of a longer conversation with someone else and are confused about what I'm saying.

Israel has the right to go into the Gaza Strip and kill all the Hamas evil terrorists who went into Israel and butchered men, women, children and babies. Those are sick demented people. I've already said this. I never said anything counter to it. So, I don't know why you're writing that to me.

As I said before... they have the right to do it, as everyone has a right to self-defense, but killing thousands of civilians, the vast majority of who didn't vote for Hamas in the process may not be the wisest course of action in the long run (Hamas had the most votes, but not a majority). A majority of the civilians being killed in the bombings didn't support and had nothing to do with the Hamas' raid. I'm sure you're not aware that no country will take them, they are trapped. Do you care about the innocent lives of these men, women and children, ThereRoseaLamb? That's not a rhetorical question.

It's a hell hole for the vast majority of people who live in the occupied territories. Can you imagine living under occupation, having no security of a sovereign state to secure your rights, property and your life? Can you empathize? ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ Mat 25:40. It's going to cause a lot of agitation against the people who are occupying your country. The occupation just perpetuates the violence.

The United States supports national determination. Israel needs to help create a democratic Palestinian nation with which they can have a close cooperative peace and prosperity with. Every situation they could try would have risks, but this would be the right thing to do, with the best chance of success.

Israel tried to make a peace deal to create a Palestinian State, but the talks failed. The PLO should have accepted the deal, even though they didn't get everything they wanted. Once personal bonds between the people grow much larger, and Israel knows they can trust them, the new state can get more sovereignty. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God." Mat 5:9. Over the years the polls have fluctuated, but a majority of Israelis and Palestinians support the two peaceful states.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Huh? I wasn't talking to you, and you jumped into the end of a longer conversation with someone else and are confused about what I'm saying.

You've been here long enough to know better. And I quoted you and answered each point you were making. No, I'm not confused, I've been reading along.

As I said before... they have the right to do it, as everyone has a right to self-defense, but

Right there means ignore everything I said before that. smh

killing thousands of civilians, the vast majority of who didn't vote for Hamas in the process may not be the wisest course of action in the long run (Hamas had the most votes, but not a majority). A majority of the civilians being killed in the bombings didn't support and had nothing to do with the Hamas' raid.

I hope that is true. But this is war and innocent people get killed in war every single day. Israel isn't seeking to kill civilians. They are trying to stamp out the terrorists.

I'm sure you're not aware that no country will take them, they are trapped. Do you care about the innocent lives of these men, women and children, ThereRoseaLamb? That's not a rhetorical question.

I'll say it again, innocent people are being killed in wars all over this world day in and out. Do you care about them?! Then what aren't you calling for a ceasefire in all of these countries? It's like people believe war was invented yesterday. This is what happens in war. As I said, that's why they say, war is hell.