Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone
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That’s literally not even close to what I said. Is your objective to misrepresent me? I have no idea why you would go out of your way to say I’m claiming perfection is necessary.
I told you that people need grace because they are not perfect.
Grace means people are given a chance, time, the ability to make mistakes without punishment, and forgiveness with the expectation that there will be gradual improvement, step by step.
This is about a maturing process. Grace doesn’t cover giving up and returning to a life of sin.
Luke 9
62Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”
I told you that people need grace because they are not perfect.
Grace means people are given a chance, time, the ability to make mistakes without punishment, and forgiveness with the expectation that there will be gradual improvement, step by step.
This is about a maturing process. Grace doesn’t cover giving up and returning to a life of sin.
Luke 9
62Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”
1. When I witness, testify, invite concerning God it means I have Faith in my Salvation through God and believe He can Save others like He did me.
So the real question is:
Why isn't the church building filled with Saved people and new converts always walking through the door?
Are people so secure in their own Salvation knowing even if they don't do works they still get rewarded Heaven?
I believe everyone I meet God made it so I can be a Witness for Him.
How many people are in Hell and going to Hell because I didn't Witness to them?
That actually eats at me all the time.
I could have been the only Jesus those people ever met.
But it's cool because I know I am saved so who cares about them, RIGHT?
So the real question is:
Why isn't the church building filled with Saved people and new converts always walking through the door?
Are people so secure in their own Salvation knowing even if they don't do works they still get rewarded Heaven?
I believe everyone I meet God made it so I can be a Witness for Him.
How many people are in Hell and going to Hell because I didn't Witness to them?
That actually eats at me all the time.
I could have been the only Jesus those people ever met.
But it's cool because I know I am saved so who cares about them, RIGHT?
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You keep confusing your sinlessness (holiness) with salvation as a gift given to you by the grace of God.
Your obedience, not sinning, works, legalism, is the flow on effect of salvation, granted by grace through Christ alone.
You cannot be saved in or through holiness or anything else you can do. It is never grace and your self effort at anything.
Because the atonement, your justification and sanctification, has been granted to you as a gift. By Jesus Christ.
Jesus comes first and last when we are talking about the reason for salvation.
Works, endurance, love, whatever, is the direct result of the Holy Spirit.
Hands up, anyone out there that does not realize that the glory belongs to Jesus Christ alone?
Your obedience, not sinning, works, legalism, is the flow on effect of salvation, granted by grace through Christ alone.
You cannot be saved in or through holiness or anything else you can do. It is never grace and your self effort at anything.
Because the atonement, your justification and sanctification, has been granted to you as a gift. By Jesus Christ.
Jesus comes first and last when we are talking about the reason for salvation.
Works, endurance, love, whatever, is the direct result of the Holy Spirit.
Hands up, anyone out there that does not realize that the glory belongs to Jesus Christ alone?
I do not think that any Christian would ever think that Christian works. Are not intrinsic to the Christian faith. Afterall, we were created, a new creation for these good works.
I believe that the lack of Christian witness is solely due to poor teaching. Most Christians would have difficulty in explaining how a person is saved. They do not have the confidence to witness. I had that problem myself, the understanding of what to say to an unbeliever. Witnessing is not an easy task. Most Christians would leave that to the minister or perhaps some elders.
I believe that the lack of Christian witness is solely due to poor teaching. Most Christians would have difficulty in explaining how a person is saved. They do not have the confidence to witness. I had that problem myself, the understanding of what to say to an unbeliever. Witnessing is not an easy task. Most Christians would leave that to the minister or perhaps some elders.
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Amen Brother. Hebrews 11 and faith (believing in Jesus)!
Hebrews 11:39
And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
You have to read the whole chapter.
Our belief (faith) in Jesus is what has given us perfection, a perfect righteousness in the form of a gift.
The men and women of old believed God and were reckoned righteouss. We are reckoned through and by Jesus into a perfect righteousness.
Hebrews 11, is all about believing God's promise, our Lord Jesus Christ!
Anyone who calls (believes) on the name of Jesus is saved.
Does anyone disagree with Paul's declaration?
Hebrews 11:39
And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
You have to read the whole chapter.
Our belief (faith) in Jesus is what has given us perfection, a perfect righteousness in the form of a gift.
The men and women of old believed God and were reckoned righteouss. We are reckoned through and by Jesus into a perfect righteousness.
Hebrews 11, is all about believing God's promise, our Lord Jesus Christ!
Anyone who calls (believes) on the name of Jesus is saved.
Does anyone disagree with Paul's declaration?
Hope you are not inferring that salvation is for the righteous?
That Jesus arrived to save us good folk and to punish those filthy sinners?
Where there is no law there cannot be a violation of the law.
You put a Gentile under the law, then you automatically condemn that Gentile to judgement and death.
The law kills, condemns, tells you what sin is. There is no salvation in the law.
Coveting killed Paul, stone dead.
The commandment arose and Paul died.
Grace and truth, salvation, came through Christ and not through the law.
Look to Jesus if you want to live.
So you don't steal, so what. How many other sins do you commit daily, in thought and deed.
Don't play the holy man game with me.
Confess and be forgiven.
That Jesus arrived to save us good folk and to punish those filthy sinners?
Where there is no law there cannot be a violation of the law.
You put a Gentile under the law, then you automatically condemn that Gentile to judgement and death.
The law kills, condemns, tells you what sin is. There is no salvation in the law.
Coveting killed Paul, stone dead.
The commandment arose and Paul died.
Grace and truth, salvation, came through Christ and not through the law.
Look to Jesus if you want to live.
So you don't steal, so what. How many other sins do you commit daily, in thought and deed.
Don't play the holy man game with me.
Confess and be forgiven.
I absolutely agree with you 100%
But like myself, it's possible that I fall into the same category as you have just explained. But somehow and some way by trial and error or finally just through boldness, I have found a way to introduce God.
I will definitely admit there are times when the opening is not there and I place it into the next time category, but when it is there, I do make the effort.
I will admit that I buy Powerball and megamillion tickets. And when I do, I have learned that if I say what is your name? They tell me. And I say I believe in God and in prayer and if I win you win because you are the one who is providing me with the tickets. I ask do you believe in prayer? Some say yes and some say no. I tell them, I believe when 2 people are praying it's more powerful than 1. They all say well that does make sense.
Now, between you and myself on this Thread, I don't believe I will ever win the lottery. But I do know when I return back and buy new tickets, the cashier will say I am still praying. A couple have even asked who am I praying to? And that has opened a couple doors to testify.
That's just 1 way I've been able to introduce God to others.
Yeah, it's gambling, but so is Witnessing to the LOST. Some will be led to God, some won't. But it's a gamble I am willing to make in trying to be a Witness.
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Then you don’t need grace since you aren’t required to do anything. That’s wrong.
The New Testament says you need grace. Once you understand why you need grace, you’ll realize because it’s your safety net to make mistakes without punishment with the expectation you’re still going to continue walking in the Spirit and not gratifying the works of the flesh.
There’s no law against the fruits of the Spirit, hence someone is under grace. However, there are laws against the deeds of the flesh, hence why those things can cause someone to fall from grace, become under law, and not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5 says all of this.
This means you have work to do. Faith + works. That’s my belief and I’m sticking to it.
The New Testament says you need grace. Once you understand why you need grace, you’ll realize because it’s your safety net to make mistakes without punishment with the expectation you’re still going to continue walking in the Spirit and not gratifying the works of the flesh.
There’s no law against the fruits of the Spirit, hence someone is under grace. However, there are laws against the deeds of the flesh, hence why those things can cause someone to fall from grace, become under law, and not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5 says all of this.
This means you have work to do. Faith + works. That’s my belief and I’m sticking to it.
These 1st 6 verses shared in the OP disagree with your Faith + works narrative:
These last 2 verses couldn't make Faith & Faith Alone clearer:
Rom 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God has been clearly revealed [independently and completely] apart from the Law, though it is [actually] confirmed by the Law and the [words and writings of the] Prophets.
22 This righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [Jew or Gentile] who believe [and trust in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s Son]. There is no distinction,
23 since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,
24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] [c]grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] [d]sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness [which demands punishment for sin], because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion].
26 It was to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus [and rely confidently on Him as Savior].
These last 2 verses couldn't make Salvation comes via Faith & Faith Alone:
Acts 10:
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message [confirming God’s acceptance of Gentiles].
(MY NOTE: As Peter spoke, (Faith comes by hearing - Rom 10:17) those hearing believed)
45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles
(MY NOTE: Thru faith alone, regeneration/Christ's salvation sealing/eternal life giving Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30) was/is given!)
Posted passages proclaim Salvation/Eternal Life is given via faith in the merits/work/sin payment & resurrection of Christ. Also see 1 Jn 2:2 & 1 Jn 4:10
Additionally:
Rom. 3:24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] [c]grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,
(MY NOTE: Justification is a God given GIFT, accessed thru faith place in Christ's sin atoning sacrifice)
Rom 5:
17 much more they which receive abundance of grace & the of "gift of righteousness" shall reign by one, Jesus Christ
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one "free gift came upon all men unto justification" of life.
(MY NOTE: Righteousness is a "FREE GIFT". Given by God to those that trust in the Lord Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection.
A GIFT is given, NOT, worked for/earned!
These last 2 verses couldn't make Faith & Faith Alone clearer:
Rom 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God has been clearly revealed [independently and completely] apart from the Law, though it is [actually] confirmed by the Law and the [words and writings of the] Prophets.
22 This righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [Jew or Gentile] who believe [and trust in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s Son]. There is no distinction,
23 since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,
24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] [c]grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] [d]sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness [which demands punishment for sin], because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion].
26 It was to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus [and rely confidently on Him as Savior].
These last 2 verses couldn't make Salvation comes via Faith & Faith Alone:
Acts 10:
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message [confirming God’s acceptance of Gentiles].
(MY NOTE: As Peter spoke, (Faith comes by hearing - Rom 10:17) those hearing believed)
45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles
(MY NOTE: Thru faith alone, regeneration/Christ's salvation sealing/eternal life giving Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30) was/is given!)
Posted passages proclaim Salvation/Eternal Life is given via faith in the merits/work/sin payment & resurrection of Christ. Also see 1 Jn 2:2 & 1 Jn 4:10
Additionally:
Rom. 3:24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] [c]grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,
(MY NOTE: Justification is a God given GIFT, accessed thru faith place in Christ's sin atoning sacrifice)
Rom 5:
17 much more they which receive abundance of grace & the of "gift of righteousness" shall reign by one, Jesus Christ
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one "free gift came upon all men unto justification" of life.
(MY NOTE: Righteousness is a "FREE GIFT". Given by God to those that trust in the Lord Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection.
A GIFT is given, NOT, worked for/earned!
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Salvation is a gift because we aren’t entitled to anything in the first place. You get grace, don’t abuse it, and God will gift you with eternal life in the age to come. That’s why people are doing their best in this life so that they can keep the promise.
I don’t know what you been told, but Christianity isn’t an easy road man, but the church makes a lot more money telling people that.
How’s this for a greeting to every new guest who walks in the church door? Scare them all away?
Matthew 7 ESV
14For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
No. People are saying what you seem to be saying. “Faith plus nothing then it doesn’t matter what you do.” Sadly, is sending a lot of people to hell most likely, but I truly hope not.
When we die, you know we will be whoever we are now, right? If someone dies an unrepentant sinner now, then they will be an unrepentant sinner then. God isn’t going to give people eternal life who live a life of wickedness just so they can prance around the Kingdom with immortality sinning it up. No unclean thing will enter those gates.
I don’t know what you been told, but Christianity isn’t an easy road man, but the church makes a lot more money telling people that.
How’s this for a greeting to every new guest who walks in the church door? Scare them all away?
Matthew 7 ESV
14For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
No. People are saying what you seem to be saying. “Faith plus nothing then it doesn’t matter what you do.” Sadly, is sending a lot of people to hell most likely, but I truly hope not.
When we die, you know we will be whoever we are now, right? If someone dies an unrepentant sinner now, then they will be an unrepentant sinner then. God isn’t going to give people eternal life who live a life of wickedness just so they can prance around the Kingdom with immortality sinning it up. No unclean thing will enter those gates.
Not exactly. A gift is just something given to someone without payment.
You doing what you signed up for in the New Covenant (yes there is a literal covenant and there are conditions) is not doing anything beyond the call of duty and reasonable service. You work, God reaps the glory, and you’re entitled to no pay, but gifts and rewards are many. They often referred to it as being a “slave” of righteousness.
You seek God’s glory, serve Him, and there are rewards and gifts.
It being a gift, it isn’t something you’re entitled to. Make more sense that way?
You doing what you signed up for in the New Covenant (yes there is a literal covenant and there are conditions) is not doing anything beyond the call of duty and reasonable service. You work, God reaps the glory, and you’re entitled to no pay, but gifts and rewards are many. They often referred to it as being a “slave” of righteousness.
You seek God’s glory, serve Him, and there are rewards and gifts.
It being a gift, it isn’t something you’re entitled to. Make more sense that way?
