Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

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Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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#201
Jun 24, 2020
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#201
Aussie52 said:
Here we go again! Backloading salvation with works.
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Nope - "WORKS" contribute NOTHING to salvation, since that's by FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on Calvary.

The Book of James is a "Litmus test" to see whether what YOU CALL FAITH, really is.

Bottom line: IF WHAT YOU CALL FAITH DOESN'T CHANGE YOU, and cause you to start doing good works, Then your "Faith isn't FAITH at all - just "religious belief".
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#202
Dec 18, 2021
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#202
Bob-Carabbio said:
Nope - "WORKS" contribute NOTHING to salvation, since that's by FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on Calvary.

The Book of James is a "Litmus test" to see whether what YOU CALL FAITH, really is.

Bottom line: IF WHAT YOU CALL FAITH DOESN'T CHANGE YOU, and cause you to start doing good works, Then your "Faith isn't FAITH at all - just "religious belief".
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James is calling out people who are hearers of the word not doers of the word. telling them to test their faith.

What if you claim to have faith but have no works, Can that faith save you?

the answer is no..

He is not telling others to test someone elses faith. he is asking us to test our own faith. If we are hearers only and not doers. we need to examine our faith.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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#203
Jun 24, 2020
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#203
HeIsHere said:
Definitely bad teaching is a problem that can cause people to not grow in the faith, having said that going under the law is a horrible thing, it nullifies grace.

Scripture is pretty clear on this.
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ONLY if you go under the law IN ORDER TO EARN YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Being obedient to the law is god's WILL for man. I assumeyou haven't murdered anybody. = you're obedient to the law. You probably havent LIED, nor Stolen, nor COMITTED ADULTERY either. SO you're being obedient to the LAW.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#204
Jun 24, 2020
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#204
Everlasting-Grace said:
James is calling out people who are hearers of the word not doers of the word. telling them to test their faith.

What if you claim to have faith but have no works, Can that faith save you?

the answer is no..

He is not telling others to test someone elses faith. he is asking us to test our own faith. If we are hearers only and not doers. we need to examine our faith.
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That's what I said - if it doesn't WORK, it's not "Faith" at all.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#205
Jan 13, 2016
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#205
To which of the twelve tribes do ya'll belong?:confused:

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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#207
May 21, 2022
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#207
oyster67 said:
Not when the Spirit gives discernment.


The concept is that absence of works disproves faith.

We don't do works to prove we have faith. Thats not how works works.
It is Christ and His Spirit which work in and through us.
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This is basically back loading works onto salvation.

Tell me is a good work/discernment when someone believes salvation is losable?

Tell me where is the Spirit there?

To me that is the absence of works, should I judge someone as not saved then?
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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#208
May 21, 2022
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#208
Bob-Carabbio said:
That's what I said - if it doesn't WORK, it's not "Faith" at all.
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How much work shows faith?

Which work shows faith?

This is basically equating works with faith.

Scripture no where teaches that no works means no faith.

A dead faith is not non-existent faith. That doesn't even make sense to use the word "dead" to describe non-existent.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#209
Dec 18, 2021
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#209
HeIsHere said:
How much work shows faith?

Which work shows faith?

This is basically equating works with faith.

Scripture no where teaches that no works means no faith.

A dead faith is not non-existent faith. That doesn't even make sense to use the word "dead" to describe non-existent.
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Dead = no life

dead faith equals a faith that has no life = no faith at all = mere belief

and ps it makes total sense. a true faith would mean a living faith
 
J

jaybo

Banned
#210
Jun 5, 2020
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#210
James simply states that if you have faith, it will show in your life by your behavior and actions. Requiring "works" as evidence of salvation is false doctrine.
 
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NilsForChrist

Active member
#211
Jan 31, 2023
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#211
mailmandan said:
Whether to God or to others or both, regardless, his faith was demonstrated. You make this out to be much more complicated than it really is. In Matthew 12:37, Jesus said by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned. This is because our words reveal our heart condition.
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Amen.
 
N

NilsForChrist

Active member
#212
Jan 31, 2023
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#212
jaybo said:
James simply states that if you have faith, it will show in your life by your behavior and actions. Requiring "works" as evidence of salvation is false doctrine.
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Absolutely.
 
J

jaybo

Banned
#213
Jun 5, 2020
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#213
Everlasting-Grace said:
Dead = no life

dead faith equals a faith that has no life = no faith at all = mere belief

and ps it makes total sense. a true faith would mean a living faith
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"They answered, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:31 No "works" required.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#214
Mar 4, 2020
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#214
mailmandan said:
Works-salvationists typically confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture and the end result is salvation by works. Unbelievers do not obey His word (Romans 10:16; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) no matter how much illegitimate obedience that they attempt to conjure up in a vain effort to obtain salvation based on works. (Matthew 7:21-23)
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Jesus said do something. You say don’t do something.

I say have faith that what Jesus said is true and have faith that by doing what he instructed is accurate and will save those who do them.

Cross referencing Jesus with the rest of the New Testament, there’s no other conclusion that mere belief without works is a false gospel.

Hopefully by saying this, I’ll at least snatch someone from the flames, so to speak.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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#215
Everlasting-Grace said:
Dead = no life

dead faith equals a faith that has no life = no faith at all = mere belief

and ps it makes total sense. a true faith would mean a living faith
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That is the doctrine of Augustine. It is a politically motivated interpretation he employed and is still being carried forward and the truth of the actual meaning of the words do not support this interpretation.

No where does James address the Jew who supposedly are not saved and give them the good news, this means he believed his audience was saved and he addressed them that way, 15X in fact

James is writing about the usefulness of faith not the genuineness of faith.

"Dead" does not equal the genuineness.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#216
Dec 9, 2011
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#216
HeIsHere said:
How much work shows faith?

Which work shows faith?

This is basically equating works with faith.

Scripture no where teaches that no works means no faith.

A dead faith is not non-existent faith. That doesn't even make sense to use the word "dead" to describe non-existent.
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How much work Shows faith —>To men?
May not be anything physical but something will show If It’s just a sincere smile or helping an elderly lady across the street. Works will be tested to see what manner they are YET the soul shall be saved.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#217
Dec 18, 2021
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#217
jaybo said:
"They answered, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:31 No "works" required.
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yes

but this is not mere belief. this is true saving faith
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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#218
Jun 24, 2020
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#218
HeIsHere said:
How much work shows faith?
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Any work done by FAITH

This is basically equating works with faith.
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Don't be ridiculous!!! WHether you like it or not FAITH produces works. they're the RESULT of it.

Scripture no where teaches that no works means no faith.
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Read James again!!! That's EXACTLY what it teaches

A dead faith is not non-existent faith.
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Here we go with "Word games". What does DEAD FAITH accomplish (since it's DEAD). Dead faith gonna SAVE you???
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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#219
May 21, 2022
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#219
jaybo said:
"They answered, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:31 No "works" required.
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Agree. One either believes or one does not.

There is only one gospel, therefore there is no "mere faith."

Belief/ Faith is not enough so we have to backload works onto the Gospel to that now people have to prove their faith.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#220
Dec 18, 2021
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#220
HeIsHere said:
That is the doctrine of Augustine. It is a politically motivated interpretation he employed and is still being carried forward and the truth of the actual meaning of the words do not support this interpretation.

No where does James address the Jew who supposedly are not saved and give them the good news, this means he believed his audience was saved and he addressed them that way, 15X in fact

James is writing about the usefulness of faith not the genuineness of faith.

"Dead" does not equal the genuineness.
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please stop with the augustine/calvin stuff. this is not about them and I am neither of the two. noe does my belief come from them. We need to open our minds and stop fighting doctrines and just look to the word.

James states plainly.

James 2: 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone claims he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

this is the context of what james is saying

1. He does not say they have faith, he said they CLAIMED to have faith
2. He asked the question. can this "claimed" faith save them (salvation is in question)

He is talking to people who claim they have faith, who say they are questions. he is asking them, if you claim you have faith but have no works, can faith really save you??

he then states that CLAIMED faith is dead (no faith at all)

again, a faith that id dead is no faith at all.. It can not save!!
 
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