Israel's Final Deliverance

[ThereRoseaLamb]

God said he was giving them the land to live in, not to own, solely under the condition they obeyed the covenant.

God made an unconditional and everlasting covenant with Abe, the land promise was part of it. It has yet to be fulfilled.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Actually it doesn't say only a remnant will be saved. This debate has gone back and forth for years, and it will be the Lord Himself who settles it I suppose.

And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob

I don't see how that could be mistaken, but as I say, it's been debated over the years.

It's mistaken because you're stumbling over misplaced punctuation that creates a faulty reading. You think it says all Israel will be saved [comma, or colon], as these OT verses say, as if those verses say everyone in Israel will be saved. They don't say that at all. They describe how all of the godly remnant of Israel throughout the ages will be saved, ie God will remove ungodliness from them by taking away their sins. So verses 26-27 say in fact:

And so all Israel shall be saved as it is written, "There shall come out of Zion the deliverer, and he shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob". For "this is my covenant to them when I take away their sins." Romans 11:26-27​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

God made an unconditional and everlasting covenant with Abe, the land promise was part of it. It has yet to be fulfilled.

Yes unconditional covenant confirming the promise of the land, but the promise was to Abraham's seed, who is Christ, which is confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16. That promise was fulfilled when the father gave everything to Christ forever.

 

[Hakawaka]

There's a lot to unpack in that passage. I know people have different views of scripture, especially Revelation. There are several rules to which I adhere when reading such a prophetic book. One is: In a particular area, if most of the verses are allegorical then the entire passage is likely allegorical. Unless we are told, the Spirit does not flip flop from allegory to actual within the same passage.

So, in the passage above, we see the Euphrates river. John would have known this river and the importance of it. It provided water to people and crops, allowed for trade and commerce between nations, and was essential to regional life as he knew it. Today, we know it as one of the waterways that established the "cradle of life" so its importance stretched even into our day.

Then, in the next verse we see frogs, a dragon, and a beast. This is allegory. Sure, they denote actual things (like the Euphrates) but the references are to their meanings as they relate to the end of the age. So, the Euphrates, too, relates to the end of the age.

The drying up of the waters of the Euphrates is emblematic of the drying up of revelation and insight. This will be (and currently is) a famine of the word of God. They also represent the removal of restraint (also prophesied and what we are currently experiencing) because it restrained "the kings" until it is dried up. At one time, even the unbelievers saw some wisdom in the way of God and His people. This speaks of a time when the people reject the ways of God and His people whole-sale. And so, they are given over to their unrestrained imaginations.

In the whole picture, this is It is Satan in consort with his offspring, the beast, and his enabler, that little horn that speaks blasphemous things against God and against the dwellers of heaven. This is a religious figure who has led astray anyone who is seeking God and lives by the water of life, the Holy Spirit.

Thank you brother for this. I would love to hear more of what you got to say on this? Are there any preachers you could recommend who preach this? If not, could you send me a DM and walk me thru who you believe the beast / man of sin is? I take the man of sin to be the pope, potentially. What do you believe about the mark of the beast?

 

[Hakawaka]

I cannot understand how this plain scriptural concept continues to get muddled up.

Dispensationalism and american zionists pushing this throughout the globe.

 

[HeIsHere]

Dispensationalism and american zionists pushing this throughout the globe.

The repercussions have been devastating.

I suppose it will take several generations before this false interpretations dies.
Not sure we have seen the full damage of it yet, but we are heading pretty quickly towards it.

 

[Hakawaka]

God made an unconditional and everlasting covenant with Abe, the land promise was part of it. It has yet to be fulfilled.

Joshua 21:43-45 So the Lord gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they took possession of it and lived in it. And the Lord gave them rest on every side, in accordance with everything that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the Lord handed all their enemies over to them. Not one of the good promises which the Lord had made to the house of Israel failed; everything came to pass.

Furthermore the land promises will be fulfilled in the resurrection to Abraham himself:

Hebrews 11:8-10
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

 

[Hakawaka]

The repercussions have been devastating.

I suppose it will take several generations before this false interpretations dies.
Not sure we have seen the full damage of it yet, but we are heading pretty quickly towards it.

Atleast its on its way out. As the west is flooded with muslims and some of them become Christians I still dont see them going full zionist.

 

[Aaron56]

Thank you brother for this. I would love to hear more of what you got to say on this? Are there any preachers you could recommend who preach this? If not, could you send me a DM and walk me thru who you believe the beast / man of sin is? I take the man of sin to be the pope, potentially. What do you believe about the mark of the beast?

Absolutely. I will get back with you after my travels. Blessings.

 

[Aaron56]

God made an unconditional and everlasting covenant with Abe, the land promise was part of it. It has yet to be fulfilled.

He actually made a covenant with Himself (“When God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no one greater by whom to swear, he swore by himself”) and gave the promises to Abraham and his Seed.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

He actually made a covenant with Himself (“When God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no one greater by whom to swear, he swore by himself”) and gave the promises to Abraham and his Seed.

It says he made it with Abram.

On that day YHWH made a covenant with Abram, saying, I have given this land to your seed, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, Genesis 15:18​

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What you're referring to happened later

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And He said, I have sworn by Myself, declares YHWH, that on account of this thing you have done, and have not withheld your son, your only son, that blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the shore of the sea. And your Seed shall possess the gate of his enemies. And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because you have obeyed My voice. Genesis 22:16-18​

 

[Aaron56]

It says he made it with Abram.

On that day YHWH made a covenant with Abram, saying, I have given this land to your seed, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, Genesis 15:18​

​

What you're referring to happened later

​

And He said, I have sworn by Myself, declares YHWH, that on account of this thing you have done, and have not withheld your son, your only son, that blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the shore of the sea. And your Seed shall possess the gate of his enemies. And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because you have obeyed My voice. Genesis 22:16-18​

I always understood that as the same promise but upgraded. 1st, the small parcel of land but then, the whole earth.

 

[Aaron56]

It says he made it with Abram.

On that day YHWH made a covenant with Abram, saying, I have given this land to your seed, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, Genesis 15:18​

​

What you're referring to happened later

​

And He said, I have sworn by Myself, declares YHWH, that on account of this thing you have done, and have not withheld your son, your only son, that blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the shore of the sea. And your Seed shall possess the gate of his enemies. And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because you have obeyed My voice. Genesis 22:16-18​

I wanted to add more to this.

God never made Abraham swear to uphold anything. God directed Abraham and Abraham obeyed. By this, Abraham is a type of Jesus: doing what his father is doing.

So, within the covenant, Abraham is a third party beneficiary. Abe is not held to account to keep any side of the agreement. But he benefits from the results of the covenant.

This is like marriage and children: the man (party number 1) and wife (party number 2) covenant together to build a relationship of love and good order. The children just show up and take part in that arrangement without anything being asked of them. They become 3rd party beneficiaries.

Recall Abraham (Genesis 15) cutting in half some animals and sacrificing some birds. Traditionally, when men made a covenant, they would arrange the animal halves and walk between them. It was as if to say "If I do not hold up my end the our covenant my life if forfeit like these sacrifices." Both men would walk between the halves because each many was a party of the covenant.

When Abraham set this up only God walked between the halves.

17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces.

And the next verse is the verse you quoted:

18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:

So, God swore to God that He would keep His word to Abraham and His Seed.

SO, when we move to Genesis 22:16-18 And He said, I have sworn by Myself, declares YHWH, that on account of this thing you have done, and have not withheld your son, your only son, that blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the shore of the sea. And your Seed shall possess the gate of his enemies. And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because you have obeyed My voice.

This is an extension of the first covenant. Abraham is not swearing to anything. He is simply believing God and God is extending His initial proclamation: from influence over a small parcel of land to all the nations of the world.

There is so much more to this: like how Abraham's life mirrors Jesus's. It was written about Jesus after seeing him with the teachers as a boy "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." It was later that God pronounces Jesus to be His Son in whom He is well pleased. He received the favor of God by believing God... the same way Abraham did.

 

[Cameron143]

I wanted to add more to this.

God never made Abraham swear to uphold anything. God directed Abraham and Abraham obeyed. By this, Abraham is a type of Jesus: doing what his father is doing.

So, within the covenant, Abraham is a third party beneficiary. Abe is not held to account to keep any side of the agreement. But he benefits from the results of the covenant.

This is like marriage and children: the man (party number 1) and wife (party number 2) covenant together to build a relationship of love and good order. The children just show up and take part in that arrangement without anything being asked of them. They become 3rd party beneficiaries.

Recall Abraham (Genesis 15) cutting in half some animals and sacrificing some birds. Traditionally, when men made a covenant, they would arrange the animal halves and walk between them. It was as if to say "If I do not hold up my end the our covenant my life if forfeit like these sacrifices." Both men would walk between the halves because each many was a party of the covenant.

When Abraham set this up only God walked between the halves.

17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces.

And the next verse is the verse you quoted:

18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:

So, God swore to God that He would keep His word to Abraham and His Seed.

SO, when we move to Genesis 22:16-18 And He said, I have sworn by Myself, declares YHWH, that on account of this thing you have done, and have not withheld your son, your only son, that blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the shore of the sea. And your Seed shall possess the gate of his enemies. And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because you have obeyed My voice.

This is an extension of the first covenant. Abraham is not swearing to anything. He is simply believing God and God is extending His initial proclamation: from influence over a small parcel of land to all the nations of the world.

There is so much more to this: like how Abraham's life mirrors Jesus's. It was written about Jesus after seeing him with the teachers as a boy "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." It was later that God pronounces Jesus to be His Son in whom He is well pleased. He received the favor of God by believing God... the same way Abraham did.

Great allusions to Christ. No doubt the so much more would include Psalm 2:8. It's also interesting that the sojournings of Abraham are mimicked by Christ.
Nice job.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So, within the covenant, Abraham is a third party beneficiary. Abe is not held to account to keep any side of the agreement. But he benefits from the results of the covenant.

That's the whole nature of early biblical primogeniture in which the firstborn inherited everything the father had. In Abraham's case that included God's promises to him. Any other sons received their allotments of the inheritance from the firstborn, not the father. So likewise we receive our allotment of the inheritance from Christ, the firstborn, just as Abraham saw receiving his inheritance of the land from his seed (Christ) in the resurrection because the promise was to him, the firstborn (Genesis 15:18).

This is why Israel received their allotment of the land from Joshua of the tribe of Ephraim, who was the firstborn.

They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. Jeremiah 31:9​

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Israel had no inheritance apart from their association with Joshua, who is a figure of Jesus, whose Hebrew name is Joshua. This explains why Israel said they had no inheritance in David during the split of the kingdom. Their inheritance was through association with Ephraim the firstborn, just as our inheritance is through association with Jesus the firstborn.

So when all Israel saw that the king hearkened not unto them, the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? neither have we inheritance in the son of Jesse: to your tents, O Israel: now see to thine own house, David. So Israel departed unto their tents. 1 Kings 12:16​

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And why Ezekiel describes Israel as Ephraim (the firstborn) and his associates

Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. Ezekiel 37:19​

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When Abraham set this up only God walked between the halves.

That's possible, but Abraham could have and probably did walk between them. I mean he was right there setting everything up, so it would have been a natural thing for him to walk between the pieces. But God was indeed the only one who bound himself to do anything

 

[Aaron56]

That's the whole nature of early biblical primogeniture in which the firstborn inherited everything the father had.

Primogeniture! I don’t usually pull that word out on public forums. I love your insight!

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

He actually made a covenant with Himself (“When God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no one greater by whom to swear, he swore by himself”) and gave the promises to Abraham and his Seed.

Which is what I said. An unconditional and everlasting covenant, with the Jewish people.

 

[Aaron56]

Which is what I said. An unconditional and everlasting covenant, with the Jewish people.

It was with people of promise not people with the same DNA.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

It was with people of promise not people with the same DNA.

The Jews are the people of the promise. We are the grafted in.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

We are the grafted in.

So are the Jews. The promises were not to them, but to Christ, the firstborn, into whom all are grafted and receive their inheritance from.