Israel.
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In my close to 35 years of being born again, I have heard different Christians and Churches refer to themselves as “Israel of God” “spiritual Israel” , even variations of spiritual “sons of Abraham”.
I have never heard them refer to themselves as any form of “Jacob”.
That’s why it’s very interesting that God goes out of His Way, to send an Angelic Being, that stands in His Presence, to not only tell Mary that her Son would sit on King David’s Throne.
And remember, David ONLY had a political Throne, on Earth, in Jerusalem. NOT HEAVEN.
But also that He would rule over the House of JACOB.
Luke 1
32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
Yes He will reign over all the Saints, but just as there is a distinction between the Church and Israel at the end of Revelation written on the city’s gates, so there is a distinction between the Church and the House of Jacob here.
I think you can already tell that my inclination is to think that Jesus' earthly and heavenly kingdom is one and the same.
I see no grounds for two kingdoms in the seemingly interchangeable use of "Israel" and "Jacob".
I can clearly see that Jesus is the king of Israel, and is "not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Mathew 15:24).
If He only came for the house of Israel how can it be that His kingdom includes believers from every kindred and nation?
I am guessing that you would tell me that Jesus has more than one kingdom.
The first has neither Jew nor Greek because all are one, while the other only has those that have followed Rabbinic Judaism, or have the appropriate DNA.
Which one of these kingdoms is the "house of Jacob" described in Luke 1:32?
I wonder what that kingdom will look like in a million years time, as it is to be there forever and has no end.
In the case of two eternal kingdoms defined by physical ethnicity I wonder which one I would be in. My DNA is such a crazy mix.
If Jesus can say to the rulers of the nation "Ye are of your father the devil", excluding them from His definition of Israel, which kingdom is Benjamin Netanyahu now in?
I could not be critical of believers who claim to be in the "Israel of God", regardless of their circumcision status, because Galatians 6:15-17 describes them that way.
The KJV translates that one properly. " In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory."
"seed"=Christ ref. Galatians 3:16.
It is all who are in Christ who are justified.
If I may, I pointed out earlier in this thread that Jesus addresses the pharisees. A pharisees is a type of person by definition, not necessarily of office holding but those that up hold the law more than the word.
In short....
In the 1000 yr reign Jesus establish his kingdom to fulfill the promises to be seated on David's throne and to rule the nations with a rod of iron. He binds Satan for this time. Judgements take place and order is established. Restoration of the earth are seen.
Satan is loosed after the reign and brings the remaining enemies of God to what is named Armageddon.
Christ then destroys the armies and Satan is defeated, afterwards the great white throne judgement takes place.
Then the heavens and earth are replaced with a new heaven and earth where God himself dwells with his people.
Despite my humility...great minds think alike brother!
Oh and same thing if you are a sister.
Here is another one that people are coming unstuck on:
Jeremiah 31:35-36
King James Version
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Once again the correct word is "seed", and that is a Biblical reference to Christ.
"Israel of God" includes all who are in Christ.
Although these words were spoken before the Babylonian captivity, God's hand of mercy is on His chosen people to this day.
God's chosen people all choose Jesus.
It was the same before Jesus was born.
Hebrews Chapter 11.
You refer to my comment on John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil"
You are correct, it was addressed to pharisees.
I also wished to make the point that their spiritual condition excludes them from legitimate citizenship in Israel as Jesus defines it.
They claimed to be children of Abraham on the grounds of ethnicity.
Jesus rejects their claim on the grounds that they seek to kill him, thereby rejecting God.
If they are not to be counted as children of God, they are also not children of Abraham, Isaac or of Israel.
This is true of all that reject Christ.
They are strangers to the commonwealth of Israel, as Jesus defines it.
The condition remains no less miserable if they live in the land and make lofty claims.
God's chosen people all choose Christ.
The seed of Israel is the seed of Ephraim; the two names are used synonymously in scripture (eg., Isaiah 7, 9:9, 11:13, 28:1, Jeremiah 7:15, 31:20, etc.). Ephraim was Jacob's adopted half-Egyptian son whom he made his firstborn that inherited all of God's promises to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Egypt symbolizes the world, which is significant, and the fact that Jacob's firstborn was adopted is very significant because it points to the adopted sons of God in Christ inheriting the promises.
This admixture of natural and foreign seed in the adopted son who inherited the promises foreshadowed God's removal of the difference between his people (circumcision) and the world (uncircumcision) and combining them into one new people of God, as it is written:
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of two, one new man, so making peace; Ephesians 2:11-15
Under the old covenant God's people were determined by circumcision, not by ethnicity or race, because anyone in the world could become a son of Israel by becoming circumcised and keeping the law. This foreshadowed the eternal reality of anyone in the world being able to become a son of God by becoming spiritually circumcised through faith in Christ.Jacob prophesied that the seed of Ephraim (Israel) would become a fullness of gentiles.
And [Jacob] his father refused, and said, I know, my son, I know. He [Manasseh] also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother [Ephraim] shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a fullness of gentiles. Genesis 48:19
The natural nation of Ephraim/Israel was sown in death among the nations in 722 BC, and raised out of the dead on the day of Pentecost when God's holy nation consisting of Abraham's natural seed and the seed of foreigners was born from above by the holy spirit on Mt Zion.During the festival of Pentecost, the high priest would wave two loaves of leavened bread before the God. The two loaves symbolize the circumcision and the uncircumcision combined into one people of God, and bread with leaven symbolizes sin (unlike unleavened bread that symbolized the sinless Christ), which the body of Christ has until it is perfected
When the prophets prophesied about the restoration of Israel, this is what they saw in spirit. An eternal, holy nation consisting of Abraham's spiritual seed. And true to Jacob's prediction, Ephraim became greater than his brother by becoming a fullness of gentiles.
The millennium will commence at the end of the tribulation period. After that, Satan is released and once more deceive the world. That ends with Satan's total defeat and incarceration in the lake of fire. There will be a new heavens and a new earth. All who are born again will be there. There will be no sun or moon and there will be no Israel as a separate nation.
I've said it before. Jews and Gentiles are saved on exactly the same basis. God deals with the Jews and the nation of Israel differently from the other nations. Be glad, because Israel will suffer much during the great tribulation. I won't be here.
There is a lot of good teaching on this subject. I'd suggest Amir Tsarfati. Being a Jew, his knowledge of Hebrew is as good as it gets.
Many people refer to the jews as a whole. Which is why I pointed to the pharisees. We have pharisees in the church also.
Jesus never disclaimed the restoration of Israel when he was asked of the Apostles. Only that the timing was not to be revealed to them.
As I ask many people today who believe the church replaces Israel .....if I were to adopt some one do I become part of their family or do they become part of mine? Simple question.
Not that Christians become jews or jews become Christian but all are one in Christ Jesus. A people of God.
This so called modern day Israel has had to many prophetic events follow its birth in 1948 to be disclaimed as a forced political event in my opinion.
It depends on context; some verses refer to “seed” as in us vs “Seed” referring to Jesus.
There's no separate nation now. Read my post above yours. It's all one nation. The one you see over there now was created by unbelievers to fulfill their eschatology. Who are you following?
That is very interesting Rose,
I would want to look into it more deeply before responding at length.
You said "Under the old covenant God's people were determined by circumcision, not by ethnicity or race"
I think that is significant to the discussion here on how God defines Israel.
That is a summary of the pre-tribulation rapture line of interpretation.
I am inclined to think that the rapture and the destruction of world as we know it will all be one event.
You say: "Be glad, because Israel will suffer much during the great tribulation. I won't be here."
I would not be glad, because there is nobody of any race or religion living there that I actually hate.
I think I have a duty to call those that are outside Christ to repentance and faith.
The funny thing is that almost every modern Jew is well aware that Christian Zionists hold that belief, even as they "bless" Israel.
Those jews that are inclined toward Zionism also know that this "blessing" is indispensable to the survival of their state, because it comes in the form of much money and weapons.
They are forced to act friendly- however distasteful that may feel.
If you want to know how Israelis really feel about Christians, ask a christian Palestinian.
The repentance must start with us.
I do not believe that modern Israel could ever have been established without the support of Christian Zionists.
Yet Jesus, the king of Israel, never commanded this to be done.
Christians turned their back on Him, then did it in His name.
If Jesus now hears the cry of the children of Gaza, can we safely assume that He will blame it all 100% on "Hamas"?
Millions have been killed and displaced from their homes, including Christians, all for a psychotic extreme theology.
We should neither point our finger at Muslims or Jews for all of this.
They are in darkness, as once were we.
God's patience toward us is like His patience toward the Canaanites, like toward the Israelites when later they defied Him.
He gives many second chances, but in the end His anger is severe.
We need to repent of our idolatry before it is too late.
Bless Jesus and you will be blessed,
Curse Jesus and you will be cursed.
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