Israel.

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
There's only one.
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No, there's definitely two.

In Genesis 15 God made an unconditional blood covenant with Abraham concerning the land.

In Genesis 17 he made a conditional covenant of circumcision (not a blood covenant) concerning Abraham becoming the father of many nations.

Covenants can't be altered once they are made, so those teaching that there is only one covenant and Chapter 17 contains additions to the covenant in chapter 15 are wrong.

Brethren, according to man I speak. Even a covenant of a man having been ratified, no one sets aside or adds to it. Galatians 3:15​
 
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ThereRoseaLamb said:
No, that is called replacement theology. It's false. It's been repented of by the Catholics and the Protestants since the Holocaust because it causes antisemitism. God is not done with the Jewish people Romans 11 says so. YOU are grafted in, you don't replace the Jews.
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Its fulfilment theology. The church the body of Christ has always been Israel the remnant, ethnicity has nothing to do with it, it's Spiritual. You trusting in the flesh like those Jews back in the day in John 8.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb said:
Answer is right there in the Bible, you can find it, I believe in you. lol
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So you keep saying & you keep saying I have asked this so many times and no one answers – so clearly, we need help - you wanted to start from 'step 1' - I presume this is it so show your evidence and the point your trying to make.
 
shittim said:
We grow more by studying His Word more than asking others.
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Nothing wrong with asking - especially when someone says they have a point to make – obviously it would help to know what the point is and on what basis - then yes you go and research what they say - if its valid you hold on to it - if not you throw to the side.

You may even show them a stronger opinion - discussed with integrity - people can learn and benefit
 
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Scripture instructs us to take ALL things to Him first, not others.
We are NOT to lean on our own understanding.
blessings
 
The Church, the Body of Christ Israel, are those whom God foreknew, His People. Rom 11:1-2a

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people[Israel] which he foreknew.

The casting away of the nation of israel was not God casting away His People Israel the Church, the Body of Christ, the remnant according to the election of grace. Remember Paul had just wrote in Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel[foreknew], which are of Israel[national:

Those whom He foreknew in Christ to be conformed to His Image, is the Israel the Body of Christ Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This verse Identifies Israel, no not the ethnic nation, but the people of God Israel, the Children of God Israel
 
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Posted in another thread regarding rEpLaCeMeNt theology

It would be good to identify and clarify what is meant by Israel, which can be the land, the nation/kingdom ruled by men, or the people, and address each individually. The words nation and kingdom basically mean people, but also connote rule and authority.

The church, ie, body of Christ, obviously cannot replace the land

Paul makes clear in Romans 11 that a believing remnant of Israel has not been replaced. I frankly believe that few to no Christians believe God has completely discarded and replaced all of the people of Israel with gentiles, and welcomes them like anyone else into his nation/kingdom.

So that leaves the nation/kingdom of Israel ruled by men. Jesus said the kingdom of God would be taken from the Judeans and given to another nation producing godly fruits. In other words, the nation/kingdom of God would replace the nation/kingdom of Israel ruled by men, accomplishing what God intended from the very beginning of Israel, ie, a holy nation/kingdom of priests ruled by God. In other words, a spiritual nation/kingdom ruled by the holy spirit rather than the flesh.

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Matthew 21:43​

This is the holy nation bearing godly fruit that Peter wrote about

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the exellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 1 Peter 2:9​

This is what God wanted from the beginning, and he was adamantly opposed to a nation/kingdom of Israel ruled by men. But Israel refused to be ruled by God, and he gave them what they wanted

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Exodus 19:5-6​
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And [the elders of Israel] said unto him [Samuel], Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 1 Samuel 8:5-7​
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So in sum, a nation/kingdom of Israel ruled by men has never been, and never will be, God's will or plan. Such was a temporary adaptation God made in order to accomodate Israel's unbelief until the time of restoration when the holy nation of God, ruled by God, would be born from above on the day of Pentecost.
 
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Needevidence said:
Lol – I take that as you have NOTHING of substance to say! No wonder you like Zionists all they do is spew their narrative – then run when engaged with facts.
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Well you and facts have a very loose relationship. We've established that with other subjects. Where did I say I had nothing to say? I asked a question, either you can find the answer or you can't. How were covenants made in the OT? I didn't ask a difficult question. When you have the answer, let me know.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
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So in sum, a nation/kingdom of Israel ruled by men has never been, and never will be, God's will or plan. Such was a temporary adaptation God made in order to accomodate Israel's unbelief until the time of restoration when the holy nation of God, ruled by God, would be born from above on the day of Pentecost.
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So the land promise is fulfilled in your opinion or not?

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
So the land promise is fulfilled in your opinion or not?

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The earthly land promise yes, I provided scripture for that, but the heavenly everlasting land which is none other than heaven, the new world, nope not yet. 2 Pet 3 13

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 
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brightfame52 said:
The earthly land promise yes, I provided scripture for that, but the heavenly everlasting land which is none other than heaven, the new world, nope not yet. 2 Pet 3 13

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
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Well of course we know we're not in heaven, not by a long shot. We're still stuck on the fact that God made a land promise to the Jews that was unconditional and everlasting.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb said:
So the land promise is fulfilled in your opinion or not?

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God's promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that their descendants would be given the land to live in was fulfilled thousands of years ago.

And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein. And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand. There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Joshua 21:43-45​
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God's promises through the prophets that Israel would be regathered, given a new heart and live in the land forever began to be fulfilled at Pentecost when God's holy nation was born from above by the holy spirit on the day of Pentecost at Zion and will reach it's fullest fulfillment at the resurrection when all Israel will return with their king to rule and reign forever in the land of Israel.

Prophesied (one of many)

Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: And I will give you shepherds according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. ​
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And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. ​
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At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart. In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers. Jeremiah 3:14-18​
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The begining of fulfillment

And when the day of Pentecost was fulfilled completely, they were all with one accord in one place. Acts 2:1​
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Acts 2:5​
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: Acts 2:14​
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Acts 2:22​
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:38-41​
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Well of course we know we're not in heaven, not by a long shot. We're still stuck on the fact that God made a land promise to the Jews that was unconditional and everlasting.
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It was heavenly !

Heb 11:16

16 But now they desire a better country[land], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Well of course we know we're not in heaven, not by a long shot. We're still stuck on the fact that God made a land promise to the Jews that was unconditional and everlasting.
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The Israel from heaven is the only Israel that shall be everlasting. The current heavens and earth will be destroyed by fire at the end of time. By that proclamation, we can know with certainty the earthly land of Israel along with the earthly Jews who inhabit it - solely because they are of earthly Jewish linage - are not be the intended beneficiaries of God's promises.

[Isa 65:17 KJV] 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

[Rev 21:1-2 KJV]
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

[2Pe 3:7 KJV] 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

[2Pe 3:10,12, 13 KJV]
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. ...
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 
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