Israel... or not?

[JaumeJ]

How do you think it will settle with our Lord, Jesus, on the great Day of Judgment, if individuals say to Him, "I am not Israel, I am a US citizen?" or "I belong to the European Union?" "I am an Egyptian national?" and so on.

Anyone who is not headed to the New Jerusalem, capital of the Israel of God had better get a visa from their government before checking out of this age. Myself, I belong to my King, the King of the Jews and the Israel of Yahweh...... I pray I see you all there as fellows in that Israel of God, amen.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Do not confuse emphatic with hostilities PAL.....I am a child of God as well by Faith..the same FAITH ABRAHAM HAD....THE SAME FAITH THAT BOTH JEWS AND GENTILES FALL UNDER IF THEY BELIEVE....JESUS, ABRAHAM, PAUL AND ALL WHO BELIEVE HAVE ONE FATHER IN HEAVEN, but you still miss the point and truth of the biblical reference that I made....you are going to seed on one point while ignoring all of the other truths associated with your point........PAL

So if no hostility, why are you shouting? lol

Here is proper emphasis: you are mad because you have made a rather silly statement, at least that is how I view it. And the one thing we can say about the "fathers" that the Jews looked to as a means of validation that they were in relationship with God, which was denied by the Lord Jesus Christ, is that they were trusting in the wrong Father.

That's kind of a simple lesson Christ taught throughout His ministry.

If you would like to discuss that, my friend, I will be more than happy to show you that the "fathers" of the Jews were in fact devoid of the Life of Christ.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

you really are so naïve, Solomon's temple was not destroyed in such a way that the Jews were forced to leave, nor have we any grounds for thinking that Solomon's temple held genealogies. You really do grasp at straws.



Because he was a priest ministering in the Temple, a privilege given only to those who could prove their lineage. Requirements were different for serving priests from anyone else.



lol such scholarship. Judah included ALL the tribes of Israel.




your naivete is so sad, They knew which tribe they were of because their fathers told them. Of course they did not know if it was true or not.

Show me the "Scholars" that deny that there were two Kingdoms, one called Israel, Ephraim, and the Northern Kingdom, and one called Judah, or the Southern Kingdom.
God bless.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

Originally Posted by wolfwint Jesus plan with us christians (jews ore gentile in christ till our meeting with the Lord in the air 2.Thess. will take place, the rapture) is different to his folk the descendes of Jacob, which are then still on earth, while we christians are with the Lord.

What a sad view of God you have..

Why is our hope of the Rapture, a Biblical Doctrine taught by Paul...sad?

As usual you twist what is said. Do you have no conscience?. The Rapture on the final day of history is glorious. What is miserably sad is the mess you want to see left behind. There will be no 'after' on earth once the rapture has taken place.

In terms of Redemption, no question. But that does not mean God saved us to leave us in this fallen Creation.

Ne He has saved us, is saving us and will save us so that we might spend eternity with Him in a glorious, heavenly, spiritual new heaven and earth. Once Jesus has come He will have done with this earth.

Culmination of Salvation is the Eternal State in which we will all be redeemed ultimately from fallen flesh, which occurs at death, but, physical death is not the end either.

The culmination of salvation is dwelling in the new heaven and the new earth in a new spiritual body and worshiping God eternally. Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Physical death is the end of the earthy part of our bodies, thank God.

Hence Paul's teaching that the entire Church, both dead and living...will be glorified at the Rapture.

At the same time as the unrighteous dead are raised from the dead to judgment (John 5.28-29), Then will commence eternal life in the everlasting kingdom, and eternal judgment (Matt 25.46).

Not sad, but a glorious event some of us await in great anticipation.

you are simply pathetic. Do you really call the Jews being left behind to face misery (according to you) as glorious?

Originally Posted by valiant It is the way of salvation for ALL who will believe from Adam onwards.

Not according to Scripture: The Gospel of Jesus Christ was unknown to all men until Pentecost.
Adam had no clue as to the specifics which we have had revealed to us.

I have a sneaking feeling that God knew that His Son was to be slain from the foundation of the world, and that Adam was justified on those grounds

"Infusion of the Holy Spirit?"

yes
The Holy Spirit is not a substance, or a force, He is God, and it is not infusion, it is immersion.

lol you simply try to find difficulties which you can twist for your own unchristian purposes. It is equally not immersion. We have no human word to describe what it is. Being made one with Christ is infusion. We are made part of His body.

We are placed in God and God in us.

I wonder whether you are?

Speak for yourself:


Romans 8:23

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body


Oh glorious day!

I recognise that your thought is not deep enough to understand it but that is all part of the resurrection and the working of the Spirit.

Where do you get that the King will fail?

Any king who rules a kingdom where there is a wholesale uprising resulting in violent warfare and is unable to prevent it (in spite of his supposed rod of iron) and has to wait in Jerusalem for God's intervention is a total failure.

How is that which is taught by Christ going back to the beggarly elements?

But it is not taught by Christ.

Is that how you view this Age, seeing Redemption has not reached it's culmination yet?

Of course it hasn't we await the day of redemption (Eph 4.30).

On the contrary, that is specific to your teaching:

Don't be silly. Choosing a tribe is an IRRELEVANCE that only people like you would even think about.

Actually it is simply taking Scripture at it's Word.

There will be a Rapture, there will be a Millennial Kingdom, and there will be a passing away of this current existence which will yield to the new heavens and earth.

NONSENSE. The eternal kingdom is the consequence of the rapture and resurrection

 

[dcontroversal]

So if no hostility, why are you shouting? lol

Here is proper emphasis: you are mad because you have made a rather silly statement, at least that is how I view it. And the one thing we can say about the "fathers" that the Jews looked to as a means of validation that they were in relationship with God, which was denied by the Lord Jesus Christ, is that they were trusting in the wrong Father.

That's kind of a simple lesson Christ taught throughout His ministry.

If you would like to discuss that, my friend, I will be more than happy to show you that the "fathers" of the Jews were in fact devoid of the Life of Christ.


God bless.

First of all I was not shouting PAL.....SECOND...my statement is biblical even though you are blind to it and are obviously rejecting truth that contradicts your view...THIRD...I am not mad about anything and FOURTH....you cannot admit the truth because it contradicts your view.....


Know ye therfore that they which are of faith, THE SAME ARE THE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM.........THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, THERE IS NEITHER BOND NOR FREE, THERE IS NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE, FOR YE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS. AND IF YE BE CHRIST'S THEN YE ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO PROMISE.....

Like I said....argue against the above and keep looking like a fool....PAL!

 

[valiant]

Show me the "Scholars" that deny that there were two Kingdoms, one called Israel, Ephraim, and the Northern Kingdom, and one called Judah, or the Southern Kingdom.
God bless.

All reputable scholar deny that there were 2 kingdoms after the return from exiles, and indeed also after the destruction of Samaria.

 

[P1LGR1M]

I have found the need to put many on ignore

Not to sound offensive, but the "Ignore Function" is for cowards that cannot debate the issues.

And you show that you are guilty of what you charge me of, and it is quite clear you have not bothered to read what has been said.

We call that hypocrisy, my friend.

due to not listening to what is posted,

I think it is clear you are guilty of that.

not reading that wo which they are replying

I think it is clear you are guilty of that.

or just being stupid.

No comment, lol.

Being obedient is not being under the law.

Can you show me how this is relevant in this thread?

Can I guess you are upset about the thread dealing with Lordship Salvation? Or the one dealing with Sabbath Keeping?

Whatever your motivation, this thread is not dealing with Law and Grace.

So quote what I have said that even remotely resembles your charges so I can be seen as being in error in thinking your charges are slanderous, off-topic, and hypocritical.

Get busy.

Anyone who has received the Love that is God knows that living in grace produces obedience in the manner taught by Jesus Christ, and shown by His own example.

Could you show me how this is relevant to the discussion at hand?

Twist that again,

Twist what?

Quote me.

but do not call the children of obedience liars.

Where have I done that?

That is the spawn of Satan, for it is lie.

What is of Satan is slander and false witness.

If you have a beef with something I said at least try to quote what I said you have a beef with.

This is directed tot eh post you have quoted because I have no communication with such.

It's not directed to any post I have done.

Nothing you have charged me with can be laid at my feet.

He always either get what he reads twisted,

So show how I have twisted anything, instead of going on a slanderous rant.

or he is just lying himself.......

About what?

God bless all........

You see yourself as blessing anything with posts like this?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Originally Posted by P1LGR1M Show me the "Scholars" that deny that there were two Kingdoms, one called Israel, Ephraim, and the Northern Kingdom, and one called Judah, or the Southern Kingdom.

All reputable scholar deny that there were 2 kingdoms after the return from exiles.

Great...quote them, and then show how that is relevant to whether there were Gentiles, Samaritans, and the House of Israel.

You are dodging the issue at hand.

I never said there were "Two Kingdoms after the return from exile," I said specifically there was one...the House of Israel.

And that they were distinguished from both Gentiles and Samaritans.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Many's definition of faith precludes using their minds.

On the contrary, many "faiths" are the result of intellectual effort which lacks genuine spiritual quality.

That is the case with the mythology that arises concerning Israel.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

In cultures in which lineage is preeminent, where no genealogy exists, one will be invented. All it takes is teaching one generation that they descend from such-and-such, and it will perpetuate as reality.

Why would we think that God would preserve, not only the heritage of Israel, but of Mankind itself all the way back to Adam, but after Christ gave off attention to detail?

Especially when Israel plays such a prominent role in Eschatology?


God bless.

 

[JaumeJ]

Sure sounds like someone is looking for a confrontation........sorry, you lose.......good night.

Not to sound offensive, but the "Ignore Function" is for cowards that cannot debate the issues.

And you show that you are guilty of what you charge me of, and it is quite clear you have not bothered to read what has been said.

We call that hypocrisy, my friend.




I think it is clear you are guilty of that.




I think it is clear you are guilty of that.




No comment, lol.




Can you show me how this is relevant in this thread?

Can I guess you are upset about the thread dealing with Lordship Salvation? Or the one dealing with Sabbath Keeping?

Whatever your motivation, this thread is not dealing with Law and Grace.

So quote what I have said that even remotely resembles your charges so I can be seen as being in error in thinking your charges are slanderous, off-topic, and hypocritical.

Get busy.




Could you show me how this is relevant to the discussion at hand?




Twist what?

Quote me.




Where have I done that?




What is of Satan is slander and false witness.

If you have a beef with something I said at least try to quote what I said you have a beef with.




It's not directed to any post I have done.

Nothing you have charged me with can be laid at my feet.




So show how I have twisted anything, instead of going on a slanderous rant.




About what?




You see yourself as blessing anything with posts like this?


God bless.

 

[Brother_Don]

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[Brother_Don]

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

[Brother_Don]

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
[SUP]36 [/SUP]As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8

 

[valiant]

It doesn't, it addresses your denial that foreigners were imported during occupation of the Northern Kingdom

Why do you always LIE about what your opponents say?. Everyone is agreed that you do. You clearly have no conscience or are completely unable to understand what people say

I never denied any such thing, I emphasised that they were Gentiles, remained Gentiles and had nothing to do with the Samaritans of Jesus' day

and that Samaritans were a distinct people inter-related to the House of Israel...but not of the House of Israel.

that is their claim.

In the second quote they sought to align themselves with Israel and they were rejected.

that is in fact not what is said. you simply jump to conclusions. those who were rejected were so because of their idolatrous connections. Many of them would have been Jews left in the land. We do not have details of their antecedents.

In Christ's day He distinguishes them from the House of Israel as well as the Gentiles.

Yes because Jesus was speaking of the house of Israel as descended from the returnees.

Israel, Gentiles, and Samaritans, three distinct peoples.

you are soooo naïve. there were many Israelites and Jews who were not seen as part of the house of Israel. They had seceded from it. Only a fool would take those words of Jesus and try to divide the world up on that basis. You have a mind block.

Doesn't change the fact that Samaritans are a distinct people.

yes distinct from the Jews, and distinct from the Gentiles who were settled in Samaria.

Why do you make the statement "Jews must always believe?"

Please explain. This sounds a bit contemptuous.

As that is one of your usual lies and I did not say that I will leave the explanation to you.

Please explain why we cannot "believe Jews?"

Because Jews are fallen human beings and can no more be trusted to tell the truth than you can. And you are a proven liar.

I believe quite a few Jews, beginning with Christ and going through quite a few Apostles. We can predate these and assume we can believe Moses (though in His day the term "Jew," which derives from the Kingdom of Judah during Israel's divided state, was not being used yet). We can assume we can believe the Prophets. The Psalmists.

As you say there were no Jews before the exile. So what is your point?

I don't like your attitude, I don't like your approach, I don't like the way you twist what people say, I don't like your accusations, so I will not be replying to you again.

 

[Utah]

For me to say that I am Christian, I belong to Jesus, and that everything else is semantics, would that be a correct or incorrect summation, and why? No arguments here, just trying to learn.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Originally Posted by P1LGR1M The truth is that in this day the Temple was still being rebuilt.

What you are forgetting is that Solomon's Temple was destroyed, which dismantles the reasoning that "everybody forgot which Tribe they were of because the Temple was destroyed in AD 70."

you really are so naïve, Solomon's temple was not destroyed in such a way that the Jews were forced to leave, nor have we any grounds for thinking that Solomon's temple held genealogies. You really do grasp at straws.

Here are some straws to consider:


Ezra 1

King James Version (KJV)
1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.




Ezra 3

King James Version (KJV)

1 And when the seventh month was come, and the children of Israel were in the cities, the people gathered themselves together as one man to Jerusalem.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and his brethren, and builded the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings thereon, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And they set the altar upon his bases; for fear was upon them because of the people of those countries: and they offered burnt offerings thereon unto the Lord, even burnt offerings morning and evening.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]They kept also the feast of tabernacles, as it is written, and offered the daily burnt offerings by number, according to the custom, as the duty of every day required;

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the Lord that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the Lord.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]From the first day of the seventh month began they to offer burnt offerings unto the Lord. But the foundation of the temple of the Lord was not yet laid.


The Jews were not forced to leave? So their being in captivity cannot be viewed as being forced to leave? You deny that the Temple was rebuilt?

How did she know that?

Because he was a priest ministering in the Temple, a privilege given only to those who could prove their lineage. Requirements were different for serving priests from anyone else.

Honestly, this is circular, lol.

Make up your mind, they knew who they were or they didn't?

You do understand "Judah" is the name of the Southern Kingdom, right? And is to be distinguished from the Tribe?

lol such scholarship. Judah included ALL the tribes of Israel.

I pointed that out as an attempt to show that the mythology is in error:


2 Chronicles 11:13-16

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the priests and the Levites that were in all Israel resorted to him out of all their coasts.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the Lord:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the Lord God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the Lord God of their fathers.


My position has remained consistent.

So why did they know which Tribe they were of when the Temple was destroyed over 600 years before?

your naivete is so sad, They knew which tribe they were of because their fathers told them. Of course they did not know if it was true or not.

I am naïve because I think the argument "Jews don't know who they are because the Temple was destroyed" is absurd?

You keep destroying your own arguments, my friend.

I have pointed out that Jews are a separate people who have traditionally separated themselves, even being in foreign lands. That is the testimony of Scripture, and even recent History attests to this.

But when you destroy your own arguments by factoring in the very points I have raised...what do we call that?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Well when the building represents PEOPLE, the bride of Christ, it does not matter which part you are connected with.

Sorry, but New Jerusalem is the abode which Christ went to prepare for the Body...it is not the Body of Christ itself.

Glorious as it may be, we don't confuse the Body of Christ with any building.

Compare 1 Cor 12.12 ff.

I am not going to do the work you need to do...post the Scripture instead of thinking your antagonist has the burden of chasing after what you think is relevant, particularly when you have a consistent pattern of ignoring the Scripture that your antagonist posts.

That is an example of arrogance and sloth.

But the bride of Christ comes down into the eternal kingdom, not some spurious millennium.

I can see why you think the teachings which do not fit the System of Theology you have embraced is spurious, but the fact remains, many teachings show that there will be a Millennial Kingdom which will fulfill the promise of God to not just Israel, but to all families of the earth.

New Jerusalem does not come down until after the thousand year Reign of Christ, the Great White Throne Judgment, which is the time this current Creation passes out of existence.

That is the testimony of Scripture, and cannot be called spurious, for it is Inspired.


God bless.

 

[james57]

How do you think it will settle with our Lord, Jesus, on the great Day of Judgment, if individuals say to Him, "I am not Israel, I am a US citizen?" or "I belong to the European Union?" "I am an Egyptian national?" and so on.

Anyone who is not headed to the New Jerusalem, capital of the Israel of God had better get a visa from their government before checking out of this age. Myself, I belong to my King, the King of the Jews and the Israel of Yahweh...... I pray I see you all there as fellows in that Israel of God, amen.

I kinda thought my passport would be the fact I accepted the son of God to be my Lord and Saviour. Didn't know I would have to state I am Israel, or a uk citizen

 

[P1LGR1M]

Originally Posted by P1LGR1M So do you pray, "Our Father Abraham, hallowed be thy name, thy Kingdom come..."

May I suggest you see a doctor?

Can I ask which kind of doctor you would have me see?

Is that the doctor that treats medical maladies, mental maladies, or the ones who are called Scholars?

I have no inclination to appeal to anyone you suggest, seeing that whoever it is you have appealed to yourself has led you to embrace doctrines which are clearly contrary to the Testimony of Scripture.

You can choose which Tribe you want to be from,

As it is irrelevant, yes. I can name myself as any tribe I like.

Doesn't make you a Jew, and suggests that you do not understand that Heritage has nothing to do with Salvation in Christ.

Now I am still curious, and haven't gotten to all of the responses yet, but why would you want to be of any Tribe when, according to your own statement...we can't trust Jews?

and choose who you want to be your Father,

not my choice, God's in Rom 4. But you must distinguish Father from father. It is this lack of discernment that explains why you are deep in heresy.

That's the point, I do distinguish Father from father, lol.

Here is what the Lord has to say about the fathers:


John 6:47-50

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

[SUP]48 [/SUP]I am that bread of life.

[SUP]49 [/SUP]Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

[SUP]50 [/SUP]This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.


So you want to show my error in how I distinguish Father from the fathers?

as for me and my house...
...we shall serve the Lord.

In context that statement represents the kind of arrogance I have come to expect from you. You are most unpleasant.

Well, you would not be the first one whose doctrine I have disagreed with and had confidence confused with arrogance.

My "arrogance" though is supported consistently with the Word of God, to which I point as the basis of my faith and beliefs.

You, on the other hand, suggest we look to fathers, all of whom were fallen men, and...Scholars.



God bless.