Is the "Trinity" False?

[Bea22]

This is not supported by scripture. Jesus was 100% man while on earth;

John 1
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Pss.8
[5] For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Heb.2
[7] Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Jesus was born a flesh and blood man so that He COULD die. Spirit beings cannot die. God is a spirit being. Jesus could not be a flesh and blood being AND a spirit being at the same time.

.

Well, that's a first.
Let's clear something up because, as with everyone, I like to really understand exactly what people are saying so there are no miscommunications.

You are saying that Jesus was not God because He was in flesh?
And ... that He did all the miracles and healings and knew the thoughts of people's hearts, like the Samaritan woman, and cast out demons and raised the dead and calmed the sea and walked on water....
How exactly?

 

[hermanodaniel]

Is Elohim another God, or is He the same God? Is He the Father according to you, or is He the Son? Holy Spirit?

I have good news to clear the matter up in your mind.
Elohim and Yahweh in the OT is Jesus Christ in the NT. You can conduct a study of scriptures yourself and cross referencing to see that the words in Greek (NT) are the equivalent in Hebrew (OT).

I would recommend anyone who is unsure exactly who Jesus Christ is, to study the references made to Him being Lord, such as where Thomas called Him his Lord and his God. There are important scriptures in Isaiah which talk about preparing the way for the Lord (Yahweh) and making straight in the desert a highway for our God (Elohim) < obviously a prophecy about the coming of Jesus Christ in NT. There are many more and you can do this in your own time.

I am not sure why you are reverting back to One God when before you wanted that distinction of three to be so evident. You are not Oneness believers, so why take a Oneness stance? You potentially have three divine persons who are all equally God before you. You have God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit to choose from. Why is it that you now say they are One?

Are they all One in form so that you could sufficiently fall down at the feet of One without denying the deity of the rest?

I'm pretty sure one of you hinted in an earlier post that it was a trick question and you couldn't worship at the feet of one because you would deny the deity of the other two.

So... you have three choices and please do not pretend otherwise.

Let me ask you something, according to trinitarian doctrine, where is the Father when Jesus is on the throne? And where is the Holy Spirit?

Or, with Jimmy's response, true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, where is God the Son when the true worshipers are worshiping the Father? And where is the Holy Spirit?

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/15-24.htm

Elohim, my friend is found in Deuteronomy 6:4 where the word one used in hebrew is Echad meaning one in a compound unity sense. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I already address this in a previous comment.

 

[Bea22]

Elohim, my friend is found in Deuteronomy 6:4 where the word one used in hebrew is Echad meaning one in a compound unity sense. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I already address this in a previous comment.

Yes it says one. But it does not sufficiently address the point that I was making, that being that Jesus Christ, as referred to as Lord and God in the NT, can be cross referenced back to Elohim and Yahweh in the OT.
So, we can safely rest in the Echad oneness being found complete in Jesus Christ

By the way, what do you make of Jesus' Words in Revelations 22, that He is the Alpha and Omega, beginning and the end, first and the last?

 

[hermanodaniel]

I'm trying to force trinitarianism into a tri-theism? Is your diagram of the Godhead correct, or isn't it? Does it effectively show your trinitarian beliefs? Why then can't you say who you would bow down to?

I'll answer the question that you cannot answer for yourself. It is because you do not believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - the complete fulness of the Godhead - is in Jesus Christ.

Isn't that the truth?

Why do you have trouble sticking to the scriptures that Red provided? Isn't it true that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus? So are you going to try to remain standing or are you going to bow? And if you bow, where is your God the Father and your God the Holy Spirit at the time?

Bea22 u have yet to explain 1 Corinthians 15:22-28... you can't ignore it and keep believing in something that doesn't fit with Scripture as a whole. Again I say the fulness of the Godhead is in Christ because He is the Word of God and everything that God is has to be in His Word! The complete expression of who God is has to be in His Word, after all it's his Word and He has expressed Himself truthfully in Jesus. This understanding is of the Spirit of God.

 

[hermanodaniel]

Yes it says one. But it does not sufficiently address the point that I was making, that being that Jesus Christ, as referred to as Lord and God in the NT, can be cross referenced back to Elohim and Yahweh in the OT.
So, we can safely rest in the Echad oneness being found complete in Jesus Christ

By the way, what do you make of Jesus' Words in Revelations 22, that He is the Alpha and Omega, beginning and the end, first and the last?

That oneness my friend isn't an absolute one look up the definition and you will be quite surprised.

 

[hermanodaniel]

Yes it says one. But it does not sufficiently address the point that I was making, that being that Jesus Christ, as referred to as Lord and God in the NT, can be cross referenced back to Elohim and Yahweh in the OT.
So, we can safely rest in the Echad oneness being found complete in Jesus Christ

By the way, what do you make of Jesus' Words in Revelations 22, that He is the Alpha and Omega, beginning and the end, first and the last?

Of Course He is the Alpha and Omega because HE is the Word of God!!!

 

[Bea22]

That oneness my friend isn't an absolute one look up the definition and you will be quite surprised.

Oh thats right, I was mid-way through answering that post last night and then I just decided to cut to the chase.
I know the oneness you are meaning - you said Echad right?
Of a man and a woman becoming one?
In fact, there are hundreds of instances where echad is used in the scriptures to define one. I believe you mentioned it is used to describe a group of people as one too? In fact echad is complex but singular. Correct?

God is so complex that one title didn't do to sufficiently describe Him.

He is Elohim, Yahweh, the Great I AM, Alpha and Omega, 7 compound names of Jehovah, Bright and Morning Star, Lily of the Valley, Rose of Sharon, Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, the root and offspring of David, El-Shaddai, King of Kings, Melchizedek, Ancient of Days, Abba Father, and I could go on.....

Does that make... at least 24 members of the Godhead right there, if your understanding of Deuteronomy is correct? Why stop at three right?
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Echad clearly means more to it than just one. I do not hold the opinion that there was never a Father, or a Son, or a Holy Spirit.
I hold to the opinion that they are, and every one of those names there is the same One: Jesus Christ.
Rev 22:
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

[Bea22]

Of Course He is the Alpha and Omega because HE is the Word of God!!!

Well --- being the Word, that has to come from someone.
So that doesn't make Him the First and the Last then.
Someone had to be there firstly to then have the Word...

In Jesus' own Word He says quite clearly He is the First. So forget about the flesh part and go back in your mind to the beginning.
There is an Eternal Being, the First.
And out of the First, came forth the Word. Spoken Word or Written Word? We know it was Spoken. And when God speaks, it comes to pass, so what did this Spoken Word do? It manifested in a form. In what form did this Word manifest itself? It manifested in Spirit form, in the likeness of a man (who was not yet formed).
Let us make man in our own image.
The Word was Spirit form because it went forth from the First Spirit, was manifested in a way that we know was in the likeness of man, and was not yet flesh.
(Do you see that the Word was Spirit before it was flesh? And that Spirit came from the first Eternal Spirit?).

BEFORE Jesus' time, a flesh body came to Abraham. And then a flesh body was conceived - without the help of man - and He was called Jesus and dwelt among us. 100% man flesh, 100% God.

Then this same Jesus boldly says in Revelations that He IS the First.

And everyone shouts and says "Not so! He is flesh. He came second. He is the Word. He is the Son!"

He was in the beginning as the First, it has been Him all the way through and He is the ending.

 

[hermanodaniel]

Oh thats right, I was mid-way through answering that post last night and then I just decided to cut to the chase.
I know the oneness you are meaning - you said Echad right?
Of a man and a woman becoming one?
In fact, there are hundreds of instances where echad is used in the scriptures to define one. I believe you mentioned it is used to describe a group of people as one too? In fact echad is complex but singular. Correct?

God is so complex that one title didn't do to sufficiently describe Him.

He is Elohim, Yahweh, the Great I AM, Alpha and Omega, 7 compound names of Jehovah, Bright and Morning Star, Lily of the Valley, Rose of Sharon, Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, the root and offspring of David, El-Shaddai, King of Kings, Melchizedek, Ancient of Days, Abba Father, and I could go on.....

Does that make... at least 24 members of the Godhead right there, if your understanding of Deuteronomy is correct? Why stop at three right?
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Echad clearly means more to it than just one. I do not hold the opinion that there was never a Father, or a Son, or a Holy Spirit.
I hold to the opinion that they are, and every one of those names there is the same One: Jesus Christ.
Rev 22:
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

I have the slightest idea why the various titles you are mentioning regarding God has anything to do with the fact that God is triune. God has infinite titles because everything that is pure and good can be attributed to Him. Let us make man in our image indicates plurality certainly it wasn't referring to God and his angels. Elohim reflects the truth of the Godhead this is why we see the word Echad used and not yacheed which means absolute one.

If Jesus is the Father tell me how that coincides with John 17:3 when we read that eternal life is to know the one true God AND Jesus Christ whom he Has sent. Or when the Bible says Jesus was sent by the Father to die and be raise again to then send the Comforter. Or how about when Jesus prayed to the Father and certainly not to Himself? Or when the Father is greater than I or when Jesus said I go back to my God and your God? The answer to these questions are found in the question you have been avoiding to answer in 1 Corinthians 15. Or how about find me a verse where Jesus states plainly I am the Father.

Jesus is God but He is not the Father who spoke the Word, He is the Son, the Word of God that proceedeth from the Father. Notice the Johannine comma 1 John 5:7 the internal evidence of this verse being included in the original autographs is that is very similar to the style John writes. The Father the Word and the Holy Ghost and these three are one. Notice He said these three. If you lean towards that the Johannine comma is an addition added later then you are faced with the grammatical errors it creates when the verse is omitted.

 

[xino]

John 1: 18

18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

1 John 1

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched&#8212;this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete.

Jesus Christ is the son of God though he is God himself.
people will say "how is the son the God/father?". SO what?
you are thinking in form of a human understanding, if you think Godly and spiritual, you would know anything is possible.
if I was to think like a human I would question and say "what is the holy spirit!?"
How can a holy spirit that is nothing, no voice and cannot be seen be a person of God!?

EXACTLY. that is thinking like a human... a human knowledge that is so limited and cannot act like a humble child.
the bible says even God's wrongness is far superior and better than human understanding.

People are only thinking in a human knowledge...if they can think like a God, therefore it would be easier for them to believe the son can be the father.


No different to a father being son.
Your dad, he is also a son of your granddad, just like how your granddad is the father of your dad.

 

[Bea22]

There is an Eternal Being, the First.
And out of the First, came forth the Word. Spoken Word or Written Word? We know it was Spoken. And when God speaks, it comes to pass, so what did this Spoken Word do? It manifested in a form. In what form did this Word manifest itself? It manifested in Spirit form, in the likeness of a man (who was not yet formed).
.

I thought I would mention more theories or ideas about the beginning.

There is one that the Eternal being had already created angels and so when He said let us make man in our own image, He was speaking to angels who are in the likeness of a man's form. Then He continued to speak all things into existence and then stepped into flesh at different periods of time.

There is another that from the Eternal being came forth (not Spoken) a Son in Spirit form who spoke all things into existence. This is slightly different to the theory I put above, that being the Eternal being spoke the Word in Spirit form into existence. In both theories, it is maintained that it is still God in different forms.

To be honest, I do not know which it is or exactly how God did it.
I firmly believe in Jesus Christ lies all the fulness and I believe His Word that He is Alpha and Omega.

What needs to be taken into consideration is that this One God has many different manifestations or forms He can take on.
He is - in measure - as the Holy Spirit dwelling with and in men and women. But do we then say they should be part of the Godhead because they tabernacle deity? If you do not believe the Holy Spirit is deity then you have a problem. But if you do, what then?
It doesn't make everyone part of the Godhead. There is only One God who can manifest Himself in many ways and dwell in many vessels and it PLEASED Him - this Eternal Being - to dwell in fulness in Jesus Christ who was not born in sin like the rest of us and was simply another flesh body to tabernacle God, just like Melchizedek.
The difference between Jesus Christ and every other person who has God in them is that He has the fulness and He is the Great I AM, and the Alpha and Omega, and by Him all things were created -- including men and women.

As you can see, it's a delicate balance which requires revelation because otherwise you potentially have many many Gods... when there really is only One who can manifest Himself in many ways, as a father, as a son and in measure as Holy Spirit.

Does anyone else want to mention their ideas about the beginning?

 

[Bea22]

I have the slightest idea why the various titles you are mentioning regarding God has anything to do with the fact that God is triune. God has infinite titles because everything that is pure and good can be attributed to Him. Let us make man in our image indicates plurality certainly it wasn't referring to God and his angels. Elohim reflects the truth of the Godhead this is why we see the word Echad used and not yacheed which means absolute one.

If Jesus is the Father tell me how that coincides with John 17:3 when we read that eternal life is to know the one true God AND Jesus Christ whom he Has sent. Or when the Bible says Jesus was sent by the Father to die and be raise again to then send the Comforter. Or how about when Jesus prayed to the Father and certainly not to Himself? Or when the Father is greater than I or when Jesus said I go back to my God and your God? The answer to these questions are found in the question you have been avoiding to answer in 1 Corinthians 15. Or how about find me a verse where Jesus states plainly I am the Father.

Jesus is God but He is not the Father who spoke the Word, He is the Son, the Word of God that proceedeth from the Father. Notice the Johannine comma 1 John 5:7 the internal evidence of this verse being included in the original autographs is that is very similar to the style John writes. The Father the Word and the Holy Ghost and these three are one. Notice He said these three. If you lean towards that the Johannine comma is an addition added later then you are faced with the grammatical errors it creates when the verse is omitted.

I think you should explain your thoughts concisely how God is three in the beginning, and how Jesus said He is Alpha and Omega, and how this three person God took form or manifested? And how this three person God will be manifested today, and how this three person God is manifested in Revelations.

 

[Bea22]

Bea22 u have yet to explain 1 Corinthians 15:22-28... you can't ignore it and keep believing in something that doesn't fit with Scripture as a whole. Again I say the fulness of the Godhead is in Christ because He is the Word of God and everything that God is has to be in His Word! The complete expression of who God is has to be in His Word, after all it's his Word and He has expressed Himself truthfully in Jesus. This understanding is of the Spirit of God.

hermanodaniel, my answer will sufficiently explain HOW 1 Corinthians is fulfilled... I think I have answered it in just about every post now. I said in Jesus Christ lies the fulness of the Godhead. Meaning, I can safely fall down and worship at His feet as the One true God.

You cannot answer who you will bow down to, because you have three choices and Jesus is just the second choice for you. So, in your beliefs, you will be denying the deity of two others if you worship at Jesus' feet.
In mine, I see easily that the 'right hand of God' is an expression for power and authority. And that it pleased the Father - Eternal being - to dwell in Jesus Christ.

It would be beneficial if you too saw this because you would have no problems with bowing at the feet of Jesus then.
If you did believe this, you would have to focus more on One God (echad) and not three distinct persons who cannot sufficiently dwell in One body to be One.
If you didn't believe this, you have Jesus Christ sitting on the throne at the right hand of an Eternal Spirit.
And lest I forget to mention, if you believe scriptures, there is the Holy Spirit - the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead - dwelling in many other sons and daughters of God. And they too will judge the earth... 1 Corinthians 6
2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
Do you have many Gods seated on many thrones? With which all nations and tongues and peoples will bow to? Or do you have One God: Jesus Christ?

 

[know1]

I am new to this Christian chat thing and I don’t know how this will be received because it looks at the Trinity from a different angle. This also might get me booted off the sight but this is where I believe the Spirit of God has lead me.
Now, look at how God put a world within a world within a world (the physical and spiritual world and the different dimensions in each world), a message within a message within a message (the bible and the hundreds of different kind of codes, such as a parable which can say more than one thing in one sentence), a person within a person within a person (the spirit of man, the soul and the body), and like us, for we are made in the image and after the likeness of God, a God within a God within a God. No, I am not saying that we are gods.
Can one spirit abide or be inside another spirit? Don’t we have more than one spirit living in us? The bible says that there are three spiritual entities within each physical body. The soul, the spirit of the person, and the heart. Each differs from the other and each has its own unique functions and abilities . And then we have the Holy Spirit.
Bear with me here, I will get to the trinity part in a little bit.
I have another question. Who or what is doing the talking when you are asleep? What about those who are under hypnosis, who or what is doing the talking? No, I do not recommend hypnosis. The world calls it the subconscious part of the person. The Bible calls it the heart. Peter calls it, the hidden man. Paul has other names like, inner, inward, new man or creature. The old or outward man is the flesh. This inward man talks, thinks, has intentions of its own and does many other things. And yes, I can give many scriptures to back this up without twisting scripture to make look good. For example, 1Pe_3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
I don’t know how to read Greek but I do know how to read the definitions of each word in the Greek.
hiddenG2927 manG444 of theG3588 heart,G2588
But note that the word “of” is inferred. G3588 is for the Greek word translated into English as “the”. Even though there are a few Greek words that are translated as , “of” into English, it is not there. Thus, we have, the hidden man, the heart. That is, the hidden man is the heart.
If you know what to listen to, you can actually hear the heart say things within yourself. This may sound like I’m loony or in some cult but I’m not either.
My point is that you have a real person in you that is part of you and yet not you. Has anyone ever said anything without thought and then thought or said, why did I say that? Or, I don’t know where that came from. That was the other person in you that made you say or do whatever.
Some of you may be asking how I came up with all this mumbo jumbo and I would have to tell you that I didn’t. It wasn’t me. I just looked up what I heard the voice, vision, thought, or knowing told me. I have many scriptures to backup most of what I am saying though.
I will bypass explaining about the soul of the person.
Then there is your spirit man, which is more difficult to discern but that is what does the connecting.
Mat_19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat_19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mar_10:8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
Everyone thinks that Jesus is talking about the physical body here but He is not. The flesh is actually the heart, (not the same flesh mentioned above) and the spirits of the two people are the connectors, if I can put it that way.
Why did Jesus say to Paul, “Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?” when it was the church or Christians that Paul was persecuting? Or in Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Here again, what is done to the child of God is done to Jesus and if it is done to Him it is done to the Father.
Joh_14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh_17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
A part of Jesus‘ spirit is in us and a part of our spirit is in Him. Just like a part of the spirit of the Father is in Jesus and a part of the spirit of Jesus is in the father making them one. And the same would hold true with the Holy Spirit being in both the Father and the Son. Much like if you were to eat fruit off a fruit tree with the seed in it. That seed, if it were to grow it would be the same kind of tree that you ate the fruit from. I am having a difficult time trying to mash all this down and at the same time explaining things, as I see them, in the spirit world.
I don’t have the time or the space to explain everything here, just bits and pieces, so I hope some of what I am saying will be understood. And so this is basically how I see the Three as being One. I just look at myself and understand in part.
Okay, blast away.

 

[Bea22]

I don’t have the time or the space to explain everything here, just bits and pieces, so I hope some of what I am saying will be understood. And so this is basically how I see the Three as being One. I just look at myself and understand in part.
Okay, blast away.

Hi know1,
You're welcome to express your ideas on the Godhead, I don't think you'll get banned unless you deny the deity of Jesus (according to cc rules - see the thread). Believe it or not, your view is not that outlandish as you suppose, there may be some who even agree with you on some points.

I think the second half of your post is traveling along the lines of what I said about the Holy Spirit dwelling within God's people, which is scriptural.
Maybe you could explain a bit more on your belief of how the beginning happened, how the three persons in the Godhead are manifested (are they 3 spirits?) and how they will be manifested in the end?

I wouldn't be worried about whether anyone believes you or not, I have openly shared my thoughts in previous posts and I'm sure most don't agree but that's okay. Look forward to your sharing.

 

[Red33]

I have the slightest idea why the various titles you are mentioning regarding God has anything to do with the fact that God is triune. God has infinite titles because everything that is pure and good can be attributed to Him. Let us make man in our image indicates plurality certainly it wasn't referring to God and his angels. Elohim reflects the truth of the Godhead this is why we see the word Echad used and not yacheed which means absolute one.

If Jesus is the Father tell me how that coincides with John 17:3 when we read that eternal life is to know the one true God AND Jesus Christ whom he Has sent. Or when the Bible says Jesus was sent by the Father to die and be raise again to then send the Comforter. Or how about when Jesus prayed to the Father and certainly not to Himself? Or when the Father is greater than I or when Jesus said I go back to my God and your God? The answer to these questions are found in the question you have been avoiding to answer in 1 Corinthians 15. Or how about find me a verse where Jesus states plainly I am the Father.

Jesus is God but He is not the Father who spoke the Word, He is the Son, the Word of God that proceedeth from the Father. Notice the Johannine comma 1 John 5:7 the internal evidence of this verse being included in the original autographs is that is very similar to the style John writes. The Father the Word and the Holy Ghost and these three are one. Notice He said these three. If you lean towards that the Johannine comma is an addition added later then you are faced with the grammatical errors it creates when the verse is omitted.

Many of us have stated our position on the Godhead (Trinity) on previous threads, but to offer a possible answer to your question highlighted in blue, the following passage must be understood because of what Jesus was claiming to Philip and the other disciples, read the following passage and give us your understanding of what was intended by our Lord ...

Jn 14:6-11
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

 

[Buzygirl7]

As humans we have a body, soul, and sprit.

 

[angelofmercy]

Many of us have stated our position on the Godhead (Trinity) on previous threads, but to offer a possible answer to your question highlighted in blue, the following passage must be understood because of what Jesus was claiming to Philip and the other disciples, read the following passage and give us your understanding of what was intended by our Lord ...

Jn 14:6-11
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

John 17:20-26
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

To see Jesus is most assuredly to see the Father.

Acts 9:1-5
9

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

But to see even the least of His brethren is to see Him!

Genesis 33:1-10


33

And Jacob lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, Esau came, and with him four hundred men. And he divided the children unto Leah, and unto Rachel, and unto the two handmaids.

2 And he put the handmaids and their children foremost, and Leah and her children after, and Rachel and Joseph hindermost.

3 And he passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.

4 And Esau ran to meet him, and embraced him, and fell on his neck, and kissed him: and they wept.

5 And he lifted up his eyes, and saw the women and the children; and said, Who are those with thee? And he said, The children which God hath graciously given thy servant.

6 Then the handmaidens came near, they and their children, and they bowed themselves.

7 And Leah also with her children came near, and bowed themselves: and after came Joseph near and Rachel, and they bowed themselves.

8 And he said, What meanest thou by all this drove which I met? And he said, These are to find grace in the sight of my lord.

9 And Esau said, I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself.

10 And Jacob said, Nay, I pray thee, if now I have found grace in thy sight, then receive my present at my hand: for therefore I have seen thy face, as though I had seen the face of God, and thou wast pleased with me.

 

[know1]

As humans we have a body, soul, and sprit.

And what part of you is the soul? What does it do? What is its function? If you read everything in the bible concerning the soul you will see that what ever the physical bady is going thru while alive on this earth, the soul is going thru also. If the body dies, so dois the soul, according to the bible. And yet when the bible talks about the person in the after life that same soul is alive and felling, seeing, hearing, thinking, and aware of everything that is going on around it. You have a physical body in this world that the soul uses, and when this body dies the soul lives on, as we all know the bible say. You have a spiritual body also and if you look more in the old testament you will see that the heart is the only spiritual part of you that has other parts that are compare to the body. Just like the temple did in the old testament. it had an outer court, an inner court, a holy place, and the holy of holies or holiest of all or the inner house. And the bible says that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, so look at the temple, its parts and functions, compare it to you and you begin to see how you are made and function. You also see that the Holy Spirit resides in the temple separated from unholy things and people. I don't have time to give scripture right now as I have to go. I was only comparing us to the Trinity because we are made in the likeness of God.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Well, that's a first.
Let's clear something up because, as with everyone, I like to really understand exactly what people are saying so there are no miscommunications.

You are saying that Jesus was not God because He was in flesh?
And ... that He did all the miracles and healings and knew the thoughts of people's hearts, like the Samaritan woman, and cast out demons and raised the dead and calmed the sea and walked on water....
How exactly?

The same way ALL of the prophets and men and women of God performed ALL of those miracles in the OT AND the NT!

God gave them the ability to do it!


If Jesus was 100% God while here on earth WHO could kill Him? What human being could kill God?

If He was 100% God that would mean He was a spirit being;

John 4
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Now let's read what a spirit does NOT have;

Luke 24
[39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Now let's read what Jesus had;

John 19
[33] But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

Acts 2
[31] He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

So....which is it? Was Jesus 100% man? Or was He 100% God?

He couldn't be both a flesh and blood being AND a spirit being at the same time!


.