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eh...
- 1 Peter is not a letter written to a Jew-only church
- the phrase the kjv renders "rightly divide" does not mean to separate. It literally means to cut straight, to swing your sword with proper edge alignment or to, colloquially, not build a meandering road, but a direct one.
- have you ever read 1 Peter 2:10? once you were not a people, but now you are...? this absolutely is not referring to Israel, but to the church.
- actual Christianity: God knows His sheep ((John 10:14, explicitly))
- open theism: God does not have any idea if He even has any sheep at all, because that all depends on unknowable sovereign human will ((no verse in the entire Bible supports this))
straw house alert.
big bad wolf pwn incoming.
No Open Theist claims this.
You don't have the foggiest idea what the perspective you are railing against actually proposes. "Who is this who darkens counsel without knowledge?" Someone said that to Job.
@PaulThomson
you have preached constantly that God cannot know who is saved or not ahead of time because that depends on sovereign human will. your entire conversation here is arguing that God is necessarily ignorant otherwise your presumed rights are violated.
that means ipso facto God has no idea if He has any sheep at all.
that's pretty clear logic. i don't know why you're denying it now that it's plainly stated, other than, it doesn't sound remotely believable when it isn't obfuscated.
kinda like claiming 'contingent' doesn't mean 'dependent' i guess?
but i don't think you're fooling anyone.
you have preached constantly that God cannot know who is saved or not ahead of time because that depends on sovereign human will. your entire conversation here is arguing that God is necessarily ignorant otherwise your presumed rights are violated.
that means ipso facto God has no idea if He has any sheep at all.
that's pretty clear logic. i don't know why you're denying it now that it's plainly stated, other than, it doesn't sound remotely believable when it isn't obfuscated.
kinda like claiming 'contingent' doesn't mean 'dependent' i guess?
but i don't think you're fooling anyone.
@PaulThomson
let me ask you this - -
did God know you would be saved, the day you were born?
does God know whether you will still be saved thrusday after next?
make the connections.
let me ask you this - -
did God know you would be saved, the day you were born?
does God know whether you will still be saved thrusday after next?
make the connections.
I did not know before I was married how many children I would have. How does that necessarily imply that I do not now know that I have three children and their names?
Yet you call it "pretty clear logic" that if I did not know the number and names of my children before marriage, I cannot know them now.
You would be funny, if your lack of logic was not so tragic.
uh huh we aren't talking about ignorant human you, we are talking about omniscient Creator God.
How can God say I know My sheep if they might be goats 5 minutes from now, and ((open theism claim)) God can't possibly know whether they will or not?
funny how much you think your version of human logic is the litmus, instead of what Scripture actually says.
particularly since open theism bills itself as an alternative to supposed Greek logic influence in historical Christianity.
wow, straw man much?
for a guy who doesn't even know the meaning of the words he posts, and accuses me of straw man for taking exactly your own arguments to their logical conclusions?
and you think we are talking about you, not about God?
dude.
God has known exactly how many children you will have since before your great great grandmother was conceived. He knew thier names. He knew their futures. that is actual Christianity.
- God:
- Psalm 139:16
- open theism:
- God is like humans, clueless
Ah! Question begging. assuming what is to be proved.
You: God has exhaustive foreknowledge. That is why He knew who his children would be and when each one would be born and born again.
Me: But you haven't actually proven from scripture that God has exhaustive foreknowledge.
And circular reasoning.
You: God has exhaustive foreknowledge, therefore He has always known who His children would be and when each one would be born and born again. And the alleged fact that God has always known who His children would be and when each one would be born and born again, proves that God has exhaustive foreknowledge.
Me: You have to prove your premises are in the Bible. You can't just assume them all.
Hasty generisation. The scriptures actually say God knows his sheep and is calling them by name. That describes a present state of affairs, not a past state if affairs. And certainly not an eternally past state of affairs. But you want to generalise it to argue that because God presently knows some [articular information, therefore we can conclude that He must know at all times, since before all time, all information that will ever be true.
A trifecta of logical fallacies.
B
Believer08
Guest
No. I once simply accepted the so-called orthodox claims about the nature and character of God and time. But I kept reading the Bible, and gave it greater weight than theologians.