Is Anything Not Predestinated by God?

[PaulThomson]

Do you see God actually changing His mind, or simply showing mercy, instead of judgement?

Jon 3:10
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented (μετενόησεν) of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

THe LXX uses metanoeO, to change one's mind.

1. to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
2. to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins.

So, yes, scripture says God changed His mind.

 

[Sipsey]

Jon 3:10
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented (μετενόησεν) of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

THe LXX uses metanoeO, to change one's mind.

1. to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
2. to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins.

So, yes, scripture says God changed His mind.

Have you heard of the term anthropomorphism?

 

[NightTwister]

Open theism does not deny omniscience.

It defines omniscience differently from the classical theory. It defines omniscience as knowing everything that IS true.

It does not presume that every aspect of the future is knowable in advance as true NOW by God, since the scriptures do not say that every aspect of the future is known NOW by God. The idea that every aspect of the future is known NOW by God is derived from Greek platonic reasoning that is flawed. Platonic reasoning considers that, after change, "what was" has become either better than "it was" or worse than "it was". That is an invalid premise.

God can change and yet still remain perfect. A good child can change into an equally good adolescent and then into an equally good adult. They do not have to become a better or a worse person just because they change. A beautiful rock can be sculpted into a beautiful human form. That the rock has become different does not mean that the rock was worse than the sculpture.

Closed theist are post hoc rationalising how God can interact with creation without Him changing, because they assume He cannot change: that He is immutable. But their rationalisation is unnecessary, if scripture gives examples of God changing.

Your God is too small.

 

[Mem]

What do you mean by this statement? He stated, "Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown." No ifs or buts....

God gave the Ninevites fair warning.

Jonah 3:5 "And the Ninevites believed God."
and, although they didn't know if He would change His mind, they appealed to His mercy. Had they heard that He was merciful? Jonah certainly was aware of that aspect of God's character. Knowing that is the reason he'd ended up in the fish in the first place.
Jonah 3:10 "When God saw their actions---He relented from the disaster.

 

[PaulThomson]

Have you heard of the term anthropomorphism?

anthropomorphism, the interpretation of nonhuman things or events in terms of human characteristics, as when one senses malice in a computer or hears human voices in the wind.

Why is there any need to interpret the verse as an anthropomorphism.?The prophet could have simply plainly said, "Although it looked to Men as though God had repented, God had never intended to destroy Nineveh, but had used the threat of doing so to pressure them into doing what He always knew they would do in response to a threat from Him delivered by Jonah. "

Why would the Holy Spirit write to give the impression that God had changed His mind, if He had not actually changed His mind?

The Hebrew uses Wa-YiNaKheM Niphal imperfect sequential.

1. (Niphal) of NaKhaM -
   1. to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion
   2. to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent
   3. to comfort oneself, be comforted
   4. to comfort oneself, ease oneself

Whay would God be sorryor moved to pity if He had already intended not to destroy Nineveh?

 

[John146]

Have you heard of the term anthropomorphism?

Another "ism" to explain away what scripture actually states. Yeah, I'm familiar with that term.

 

[John146]

God gave the Ninevites fair warning.

Jonah 3:5 "And the Ninevites believed God."
and, although they didn't know if He would change His mind, they appealed to His mercy. Had they heard that He was merciful? Jonah certainly was aware of that aspect of God's character. Knowing that is the reason he'd ended up in the fish in the first place.
Jonah 3:10 "When God saw their actions---He relented from the disaster.

God gave no such warning. There was no "if you repent".

Yes, Jonah knew about God's mercy. He knew that if he went to Nineveh and preached the message, there was a chance they would believe God's message. And if they believed God's message they may repent. And if they repent, God will show them mercy and not do what he said he would do. Jonah's hatred for Nineveh is evident.

 

[Sipsey]

Another "ism" to explain away what scripture actually states. Yeah, I'm familiar with that term.

Not at all. It’s like reading a Jewish idiom and taking it literally. The Bible uses language in multiple ways that add depth and meaning without being literal. Some sayings are used for God to help us relate to Him better. At any time God had to really change His mind, He would cease being God.

 

[PaulThomson]

Then you obviously disagree with its established, historical, literal meaning.

If omniscient means simply knowing everything, without any qualification, then God would know that a sheep is a fish, and that red is a shade of blue. God would know a lot of factually untrue things.

It must be that omnidscience as it relates to God is knowing all things that are true. Scripture explicitly says God knows the past an present states of things. Psalm 139 (knowing us from the womb and throughout life), Proverbs 15:3 (His eyes seeing all actions), 1 John 3:20 (God knows everything, even our hearts), and Hebrews 4:13 (no creature is hidden from Him). It does not explicitly say he knows all the future states of things.

 

[Mem]

God gave no such warning. There was no "if you repent".

Yes, Jonah knew about God's mercy. He knew that if he went to Nineveh and preached the message, there was a chance they would believe God's message. And if they believed God's message they may repent. And if they repent, God will show them mercy and not do what he said he would do. Jonah's hatred for Nineveh is evident.

This would be evidence of God's unchanging nature, that is to be merciful and gracious (Exo 34:6).

 

[Sipsey]

If omniscient means simply knowing everything, without any qualification, then God would know that a sheep is a fish, and that red is a shade of blue. God would know a lot of factually untrue things.

It must be that omnidscience as it relates to God is knowing all things that are true. Scripture explicitly says God knows the past a present states of things. Psalm 139 (knowing us from the womb and throughout life), Proverbs 15:3 (His eyes seeing all actions), 1 John 3:20 (God knows everything, even our hearts), and Hebrews 4:13 (no creature is hidden from Him). It does not explicitly say he knows all the future states of things.

Your definitions are for a finite being.

 

[PaulThomson]

Your God is too small.

My God can strategise in real time ways to keep His priorities on track no matter what creatures do, and Has the power to intervene in History to do just that. Your God can't do that.

 

[PaulThomson]

Your definitions are for a finite being.

Your argument is the logical fallacy of special pleading. You have not provided a single verse that explicitly states God knows ALL the future.

 

[Sipsey]

Your argument is the logical fallacy of special pleading. You have not provided a single verse that explicitly states God knows ALL the future.

You wouldn’t accept them. You have already redefined terms to suit your particular view. No discussion can bear fruit if words don’t carry a common meaning.

 

[Kroogz]

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Romans 8:29
For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son; that he might be the firstborn amongst many brethren.

Matt 7:23 is "IN THAT DAY."......Judgment day. The resurrection of the dead/unbelievers. The "iniquity" is unbelievers trying to save themselves with their "good" works. Not going to happen. Rev 20:13

We are predestined to be conformed to His image. It's a predestined blessing for ALL who believe........He did not predestine some to eternal life and some to eternal death.

.......Not willing that any should perish......

 

[Kroogz]

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Again......."ON THAT DAY." This is judgement day. The resurrection of the dead/unbelievers........The chance to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ has passed.......Now they get to plead their case and none of their righteous works measure up to the Crucified Christ.

 

[Solitude]

Matt 7:23 is "IN THAT DAY."......Judgment day. The resurrection of the dead/unbelievers. The "iniquity" is unbelievers trying to save themselves with their "good" works. Not going to happen. Rev 20:13

We are predestined to be conformed to His image. It's a predestined blessing for ALL who believe........He did not predestine some to eternal life and some to eternal death.

.......Not willing that any should perish......

Those who have ultimately chosen to believe false doctrine are to blame for their own choice.

 

[Solitude]

Again......."ON THAT DAY." This is judgement day. The resurrection of the dead/unbelievers........The chance to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ has passed.......Now they get to plead their case and none of their righteous works measure up to the Crucified Christ.

All those who of dead faith do go to hell. Praise Jesus.

 

[Kroogz]

Those who have ultimately chosen to believe false doctrine are to blame for their own choice.

Yes.

There is no loss/walking away/forfeiting of salvation.

There is no election/predestination of eternal life or eternal death.

Those(believers) who believe otherwise will be disciplined or lose temporal an/ or eternal blessings.

 

[Kroogz]

All those who of dead faith do go to hell. Praise Jesus.

That is a good example of dead faith.