Is Anything Not Predestinated by God?

[Blue155]

Well…did God predestine certain individuals to be rapists, torturers, murderers, child molesters? Did he eternally predestine Hitler to do what he did? Did He eternally predestine Osama Bin Laden to make the choices he made? Did He do so with Albert Fish? Did He eternally predestine them with their actions, choices, etc? Were any of their actions holy, just, loving, righteous, compassionate, merciful, etc.? Did any of their actions align with the will of God and His teachings?

 

[Mem]

God does not save unrepentant sinners.

But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.

 

[Jordon]

Well…did God predestine certain individuals to be rapists, torturers, murderers, child molesters? Did he eternally predestine Hitler to do what he did? Did He eternally predestine Osama Bin Laden to make the choices he made? Did He do so with Albert Fish? Did He eternally predestine them with their actions, choices, etc? Were any of their actions holy, just, loving, righteous, compassionate, merciful, etc.? Did any of their actions align with the will of God and His teachings?

He predestined his will to all people to be accountable to him, to worship him, to treat him as your father, to know everyone's actions in advanced, to adopt you into church.

Only the wicked people never listened, and became the monsters they did,

 

[rewriter]

God does not save unrepentant sinners.

So, you are claiming that God, who created all humans, does not know some of the humans He created? Note I am not arguing about unrepentant sinners with this question, just asking about Romans 1:28 where it states that those God foreknew (He did not know people He created?) He foreordained for salvation. This is one of those very uncomfortable questions for anyone who takes theology seriously.

 

[Solitude]

So, you are claiming that God, who created all humans, does not know some of the humans He created? Note I am not arguing about unrepentant sinners with this question, just asking about Romans 1:28 where it states that those God foreknew (He did not know people He created?) He foreordained for salvation. This is one of those very uncomfortable questions for anyone who takes theology seriously.

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

 

[Solitude]

Well…did God predestine certain individuals to be rapists, torturers, murderers, child molesters? Did he eternally predestine Hitler to do what he did? Did He eternally predestine Osama Bin Laden to make the choices he made? Did He do so with Albert Fish? Did He eternally predestine them with their actions, choices, etc? Were any of their actions holy, just, loving, righteous, compassionate, merciful, etc.? Did any of their actions align with the will of God and His teachings?

Judas Iscariot is your answer.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Predestined can be misused
God gave us all free choice to choose, God does, has not predestined Choice as I see would not be love to all if I am predestined to not choose God or choose God. How can that be love to all if that be true? Or be free choice to choose if predestined to choose?
God as I see God is love to all. I look at the book of Job, where the counselors there say to Job you are getting these troubles because you sinned against God! Job says not!
God says look at my servant Job, who is righteous to me, he will not deny me! Satan says oh, yes he will if you remove that hedge around him, Job will curse you, deny you, if got troubles. God said then let it be. We are all like a job in the book of Job

Then the book takes off, Job did not deny God, his Wife did, his children did. He did not. So go ahead and go through troubles too, go ahead and see to not deny God, and if had it is time to change your mind to God personally

“God gave us all free choice to choose, God does, has not predestined Choice”

Amen look at the choices and foreordained results of each choice

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it sounds like this type of thing in the nt

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

choices are part of humanity God foreordains each path we choose to follow but we choose . What I mean is he’s always told man what will happen if they do wickedness rether than good and rebel against his word . And he’s always told them what will happen if they do good and follow his word . Life and death are the results of each path condemnation and salvation eternal life or damnation . The results of a person serving evil is predestined and result of a faithful person serving God also is foretold and foreordained but we have to choose who to serve

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16‬ ‭

 

[tablet123]

Predestination does not mean God chooses who will be saved without their choice.

If that is the case then His kingdom is not true love.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

Many are called but few are chosen.

God does the calling on earth.

If God chose in the beginning why is He calling people that cannot be chosen.

Which testifies that people have a choice.

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.

God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

God wants all people to be saved so we have a choice in our salvation.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If Jesus takes away the sins of the world then we have a choice in our salvation.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work in their life to get them to the truth, but when they get to the door of truth they have to make the choice to walk through the door for His kingdom is true love, but they would of not got to the door if God did not intervene in their life.

Not everybody walks through the door of truth.

Many are called but few are chosen.

 

[rewriter]

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Solitude, I see you quoted a verse but did not explain how it answers my question. What EXACTLY does that verse say about what I observed. Both Romans 8:29 and 11:2 declare that God does not reject (He predestines for salvation) those whom He foreknew. How does God create someone and not have foreknowledge of them? Note, a single verse citation does not answer the question. You must explain how your citation explains it.

Perhaps you are unaware that there are verses in the NT that can be translated multiple ways and often are translated differently in different translations and sometimes even in different editions of a single translation. I think the record (Colossians 1:20) is five different, legitimate translations of a single verse in different translations and a sixth possible legitimate translation that is not presented.

 

[Blue155]

Judas Iscariot is your answer.

God’s nature/character doesn’t align with Judas’s choice of being a thief and a betrayer.

 

[GWH]

Well…did God predestine certain individuals to be rapists, torturers, murderers, child molesters? Did he eternally predestine Hitler to do what he did? Did He eternally predestine Osama Bin Laden to make the choices he made? Did He do so with Albert Fish? Did He eternally predestine them with their actions, choices, etc? Were any of their actions holy, just, loving, righteous, compassionate, merciful, etc.? Did any of their actions align with the will of God and His teachings?

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Romans 8:29
For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son; that he might be the firstborn amongst many brethren.

God is not predestined, although He cannot not be God.

 

[timf]

If God created a biological self-replicating process that would choose to depart from him, he would have a plan that some might be recovered. This would imply that the choice to return to him was of such value that it was worth forbearing those who did not make this choice.

 

[PaulThomson]

Is Anything Not Predestinated by God?

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Romans 8:29
For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son; that he might be the firstborn amongst many brethren.

Many things are not predestinated by God. Murders, rapes, thefts and many other things are not predestinated by God.

In context, the verse you cited does not say that all those who will be rejected but will claim to have prophesied, cast out devils and did miracles in Jesus' name were never at any time known by God.

Mat 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There may also be many who say to Him in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works," whom He did know bu still rejects. And many "who say to Him in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" whom He accepts. Jesus mentioning only one category, does not mean that is the only possible category.

And in context, the other verse you cited does not say everything is predestinated, only that certain people, those whom He already had known before they believed, were predestinated to a particular end, namely, conformity to the image of God's Son.

Romans 8:29
For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son; that he might be the firstborn amongst many brethren.

Attributing one characteristic to one category of people (those whom He foreknew before they believed) does not exclude other categories of people (those whom He foreknew who never believe) from having the same characteristic.

There is nothing in scripture that indicates to me that everything, including all sins, are predestinated by God.

 

[Solitude]

Solitude, I see you quoted a verse but did not explain how it answers my question. What EXACTLY does that verse say about what I observed. Both Romans 8:29 and 11:2 declare that God does not reject (He predestines for salvation) those whom He foreknew. How does God create someone and not have foreknowledge of them? Note, a single verse citation does not answer the question. You must explain how your citation explains it.

Perhaps you are unaware that there are verses in the NT that can be translated multiple ways and often are translated differently in different translations and sometimes even in different editions of a single translation. I think the record (Colossians 1:20) is five different, legitimate translations of a single verse in different translations and a sixth possible legitimate translation that is not presented.

God predestines the elect for salvation. Those who ultimately work iniquity are never predestinated elect.

 

[Solitude]

If God created a biological self-replicating process that would choose to depart from him, he would have a plan that some might be recovered. This would imply that the choice to return to him was of such value that it was worth forbearing those who did not make this choice.

God did not die on the cross for those who ultimately work iniquity.

 

[Solitude]

Many things are not predestinated by God. Murders, rapes, thefts and many other things are not predestinated by God.

In context, the verse you cited does not say that all those who will be rejected but will claim to have prophesied, cast out devils and did miracles in Jesus' name were never at any time known by God.

Mat 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There may also be many who say to Him in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works," whom He did know bu still rejects. And many "who say to Him in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" whom He accepts. Jesus mentioning only one category, does not mean that is the only possible category.

And in context, the other verse you cited does not say everything is predestinated, only that certain people, those whom He already had known before they believed, were predestinated to a particular end, namely, conformity to the image of God's Son.

Romans 8:29
For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son; that he might be the firstborn amongst many brethren.

Attributing one characteristic to one category of people (those whom He foreknew before they believed) does not exclude other categories of people (those whom He foreknew who never believe) from having the same characteristic.

There is nothing in scripture that indicates to me that everything, including all sins, are predestinated by God.

Was Judas Iscariot predestinated?

 

[Solitude]

Jesus never died for those of iniquity He never knew.

 

[rewriter]

Jesus never died for those of iniquity He never knew.

So you argue that Jesus did not die for ALL sin? Might you be able to back that up with clear scripture and explain why the cited scripture means that? It seems to me that the simple comment "Father forgive them" that Jesus uttered on the cross does not carve out exceptions for any people to not be forgiven. Or do you claim, without clear scriptural basis, that all involved in Jesus's crucifixion became believers? Note, I am already aware that in the "long version" of Acts, Pilate is recognized as a believer and that he is recognized as a saint in some Christian traditions, just not the Protestant traditions.

 

[Solitude]

So you argue that Jesus did not die for ALL sin? Might you be able to back that up with clear scripture and explain why the cited scripture means that? It seems to me that the simple comment "Father forgive them" that Jesus uttered on the cross does not carve out exceptions for any people to not be forgiven. Or do you claim, without clear scriptural basis, that all involved in Jesus's crucifixion became believers? Note, I am already aware that in the "long version" of Acts, Pilate is recognized as a believer and that he is recognized as a saint in some Christian traditions, just not the Protestant traditions.

Only the elect can ever be saved.

Colossians 3:12
Put ye on therefore, as the elect of God, holy, and beloved, the bowels of mercy, benignity, humility, modesty, patience:

 

[rewriter]

But who are the elect? Colossians 2:20 allows for a more expansive group to be elect than most people realize. The Greek in this passage can be legitimately translated in 6 different ways, one of which is very expansive. How do you know which of the 6 translations is the intended meaning, or do you simply chose the one that appeals to you the most?

Note, I could state that all in this chat are Christians, but that does not mean that there are not Christians outside this chat. Addressing one group that is elect says nothing about elect in other groups.